Obamacare cost...

[Goatnapper'96]

Owning a cell phone is not a requirement for any of my employees.

He is a professor. Great thinker but very limited real world application, the interwebs is his playground!

[Katy Lied]

Goat's right. The poorer the country, the more likely it is that people have cell phones. They have no telecom infrastructure and it is relatively easy for an entrepreneur to get into the country, slap up some towers and cobble together a network in the urban centers. In formerly soviet countries, it used to take 20-30 years to put in a land line. My friend Iulia in Vladivostok told me that back in the 70s when a baby was born its parents would fill out a telephone request for it to get a phone as an adult.

Even the poor in Ukraine have cell phones. You scrape together enough money to buy a used phone (or steal one), jack it and turn it on, and then never make an outgoing phone call. You only accept phone calls from people with land lines (free), or text (also free). The people with land lines get a large portion of their phone bills subsidized by the govt. I've seen people stand in line at the telecom company to prepay 75 cents worth of service onto their phone which lasts them a month.

I'm one of the ones who don't think a cell phone is necessary, but some kind of phone is required. In the US, A land line costs about $15/month, and if you're unemployed you probably qualify for the subsidy which bring the costs down to about $7 a month.

[Omaha 680]

Here's the deal on cell phones and the poor: I agree with Woot that modern communication tools are an essential tool for anyone who wants to attempt to pull themselves out of poverty. But I already think there are adequate subsidies in place. If you are poor and are trying to decide what to do with your last $300/month, should you buy a health insurance policy, or an unlimited everything plan on iPhones for you and your boy/girlfriend? My experience is just antectodal, but I have seen people choosing the tricked out cell phone plans in the poor areas I have lived the past 5 years. Getting out of poverty requires learning priorities. But we teach our poor that increasing portions of life-sustaining goods and services (food, shelter, health care) are not their responsibility and they are free to blow any cash they happen to earn on other things.

[Uncle Ted]

Goat's right. The poorer the country, the more likely it is that people have cell phones. They have no telecom infrastructure and it is relatively easy for an entrepreneur to get into the country, slap up some towers and cobble together a network in the urban centers. In formerly soviet countries, it used to take 20-30 years to put in a land line. My friend Iulia in Vladivostok told me that back in the 70s when a baby was born its parents would fill out a telephone request for it to get a phone as an adult.

Even the poor in Ukraine have cell phones. You scrape together enough money to buy a used phone (or steal one), jack it and turn it on, and then never make an outgoing phone call. You only accept phone calls from people with land lines (free), or text (also free). The people with land lines get a large portion of their phone bills subsidized by the govt. I've seen people stand in line at the telecom company to prepay 75 cents worth of service onto their phone which lasts them a month.

I'm one of the ones who don't think a cell phone is necessary, but some kind of phone is required. In the US, A land line costs about $15/month, and if you're unemployed you probably qualify for the subsidy which bring the costs down to about $7 a month.

Cell phone rates in not so poor countries are relatively inexpensive. I was recently in Rome/Italy and pre-paid my SIM for my iPhone so I could have service there. It was 7 Euros (about $9 USD) for a month's worth of talk/text/data. The SIM I got free from the Apple store (they use to give them out free when there was a "shortage" of nano SIMs so I stock piled a few). In the UK it was a bit more: 10 pounds (about $15.5 USD) for about a month's worth.

[imanihonjin]

Even the subsistence-level folks I met in Africa have cell phones. "If my money is contributing to keeping poor people alive, those poor people better not have the tools necessary to find and keep a job!" Nice work, dude.

I have had exactly one job that required me to have a cell phone and that employer provided the cell phone for me. Are there some jobs that require it? Sure, but in most instances such an employer would either subsidize the cost of a cell plan or provide it at no cost to their employee.

Is a cell phone nice to have and will it make a job hunt a bit simpler? Sure, but is it a luxury that one should enjoy while hard working taxpayers pick up the bill for their health insurance? I vote no.

You liberals can literally paint any good and service as a vital necessity.

[Uncle Ted]

I have had exactly one job that required me to have a cell phone and that employer provided the cell phone for me. Are there some jobs that require it? Sure, but in most instances such an employer would either subsidize the cost of a cell plan or provide it at no cost to their employee.

Is a cell phone nice to have and will it make a job hunt a bit simpler? Sure, but is it a luxury that one should enjoy while hard working taxpayers pick up the bill for their health insurance? I vote no.

You liberals can literally paint any good and service as a vital necessity.

Let's say, as an employer, I have a job opening that requires very little skill. There are two candidates that can fill that job. One has a cell phone and the other doesn't. I am going to call the one with the cell phone. Of course, in the case both have a cell phone I will call the one that is first on the list. One will get the job and the other will not. So is a cell phone required? Obviously it can help in getting a job but if the government made sure everyone had a cell phone the end result will be worse. Given the government is taking money from the employers to pay for their cell phone for everyone program there is less money to hire one of these unskilled workers. The end result is unemployment will be higher. In short, a cell phone for everyone program actually may make the problem worse.

Of course, the unskilled are most likely going to be replaced with robots in the next five to ten years...

http://www.ted.com/talks/andrew_mcaf...look_like.html

[Goatnapper'96]

Here's the deal on cell phones and the poor: I agree with Woot that modern communication tools are an essential tool for anyone who wants to attempt to pull themselves out of poverty. But I already think there are adequate subsidies in place. If you are poor and are trying to decide what to do with your last $300/month, should you buy a health insurance policy, or an unlimited everything plan on iPhones for you and your boy/girlfriend? My experience is just antectodal, but I have seen people choosing the tricked out cell phone plans in the poor areas I have lived the past 5 years. Getting out of poverty requires learning priorities. But we teach our poor that increasing portions of life-sustaining goods and services (food, shelter, health care) are not their responsibility and they are free to blow any cash they happen to earn on other things.

Poor people have poor habits and the most consistent is the inability to make good economic decisions, and lets be honest the poor decision making is not limited to the economic sphere. Society will always have an underclass. The underclass will always require if not all at least a portion of a subsistence lifestyle provided to them. Progressive's seek to justify this by attempting to convince others that the underclass is a victim or a product of system that is rigged against them. Right now they find some success, but if there is ever a day that the US has to genuinely pay for what it spends and the middle class is called upon to finance this ever growing welfare state the middle class will declare war. Right now the logic of the argument is that if the rich pay their fair share we can afford these things. People are often much more generous with other people's money than they are with their own. While I think that much of our social welfare acts to reinforce generational poverty, there is always going to be generational poverty and there is always going to be a need for the programs. I think the only way to bring any sanity to the cycle is to actually force the American people to actually pay for it.

[imanihonjin]

Let's say, as an employer, I have a job opening that requires very little skill. There are two candidates that can fill that job. One has a cell phone and the other doesn't. I am going to call the one with the cell phone. Of course, in the case both have a cell phone I will call the one that is first on the list. One will get the job and the other will not. So is a cell phone required? Obviously it can help in getting a job but if the government made sure everyone had a cell phone the end result will be worse. Given the government is taking money from the employers to pay for their cell phone for everyone program there is less money to hire one of these unskilled workers. The end result is unemployment will be higher. In short, a cell phone for everyone program actually may make the problem worse.

Of course, the unskilled are most likely going to be replaced with robots in the next five to ten years...

http://www.ted.com/talks/andrew_mcaf...look_like.html

Assuming that a cell phone is not required for the job....how would the employer even know if a person has a cell phone or not?

[byu71]

I heard, but perhaps it was from some conservative wacko can't remember, that these cell phones have all sorts of apps. GPS, games, texting capability, etc. If it is provided for them and they need to communicate, why shouldn't the phone be a flip phone that just takes incoming and makes outgoing calls?

[Uncle Ted]

Assuming that a cell phone is not required for the job....how would the employer even know if a person has a cell phone or not?

Angie's List.

[Eddie]

Here's the deal on cell phones and the poor: I agree with Woot that modern communication tools are an essential tool for anyone who wants to attempt to pull themselves out of poverty. But I already think there are adequate subsidies in place. If you are poor and are trying to decide what to do with your last $300/month, should you buy a health insurance policy, or an unlimited everything plan on iPhones for you and your boy/girlfriend? My experience is just antectodal, but I have seen people choosing the tricked out cell phone plans in the poor areas I have lived the past 5 years. Getting out of poverty requires learning priorities. But we teach our poor that increasing portions of life-sustaining goods and services (food, shelter, health care) are not their responsibility and they are free to blow any cash they happen to earn on other things.

While going to college my brother sold satellite tv programming for a couple of months. He said that it was relatively easy and he made good money, but he just couldn't keep doing it. Why?

He said that the folks that wanted to buy were also the folks who could least afford to do so. They were the people with the homes that were a disaster, but they've got a nice car in the driveway. They were always home during the day, making working during the day easy. But he knew that he was locking them into a 2 year contract that they shouldn't be doing. So he found another job.

I think there are elements of this seen everywhere. Folks without think that folks with live a certain way. And they feel like they deserve to live that way too. So they do. What they don't understand is that many MANY folks don't live that way. I don't make a lot of money. There were a lot of years that I didn't have cable or satellite. There were a lot of years that I didn't have a cell phone except for the one provided by my work - and because one wasn't provided by her work my wife and children didn't have one. I'm actually planning to drop satellite after football season - because I've got some other bills that I need to deal with and I know that eliminating that expense will help.

I don't think "poor" people see things in those terms. I don't think they understand that many people make decisions daily and honestly don't have everything they want.

[imanihonjin]

Angie's List.

I have never used Angie's list....are you saying that one of the things listed on Angie's list states whether the service provider has a cell phone or not?

[Uncle Ted]

I have never used Angie's list....are you saying that one of the things listed on Angie's list states whether the service provider has a cell phone or not?

Yeah, there is a place for their phone number.

[imanihonjin]

Yeah, there is a place for their phone number.

And that number has to be a cell phone? It can't be a land line?

[Uncle Ted]

And that number has to be a cell phone? It can't be a land line?

Who has a landline anymore?