Natural Born Citizens

[Tim]

many don't even work!

That sounds like bitter hyperbole to me, venkman. Most statistics I've seen indicate that very few of them don't work. As of last year, the unemployment rate amongst illegal immigrants was even slightly lower than the rate amongst citizens. The national rate was something like 6% and the rate amongst illegal immigrants was just under 5%.

[Tim]

The children of illegal immigrants wouldn't be denied citizenship solely because of their race

That's not quite true. Maybe directly, but not indirectly. Fact is that our immigration system and quotes are geared more toward "wealthy" countries than "poor" countries. Percentage of successful applicants from the wealthy countries far trumps that from the poor countries. Mexico, Guatemala, El Salvador, etc. So indirectly there is a bit of a racial component to the denial of immigration.

If more Mexicans were allowed in legally, fewer would be here illegally.

[Tim]

What did you or I do to become citizens other than be born here? Why isn't it absurd for us to be granted citizenship just because our parents "dropped" us here?

This is perhaps the point that gets lost more than any other, the arbitrary nature by which many believe we should draw lines in the sand, as if somehow we have the right to draw with that stick.

Not to mention that many (most?) of our own ancestors became citizens the same exact way.

[TripletDaddy]

That sounds like bitter hyperbole to me, venkman. Most statistics I've seen indicate that very few of them don't work. As of last year, the unemployment rate amongst illegal immigrants was even slightly lower than the rate amongst citizens. The national rate was something like 6% and the rate amongst illegal immigrants was just under 5%.

in a discussion to determine the citizenship of a newborn infant that was born on American soil, what the heck is the relevance of whether the mom and dad are employed?

That is the revealing part. the underlying issue here is xenophobia. "The illegals are not working so the baby should not be allowed to be an American."

Nice logical chain of thought there.

[The_Tick]

What did you or I do to become citizens other than be born here? Why isn't it absurd for us to be granted citizenship just because our parents "dropped" us here?

My parents were US Citizens. That one was an easy one.

Next?

[BlueHair]

My parents were US Citizens. That one was an easy one.

Next?

Were their parents? And their parents? And their parents? Under your logic if anyone in your family tree was born in the US before their parents were citizens, all of you have lost your rights to citizenship. This would exclude most of the US citizenship.

[The_Tick]

Wrong. My relatives entered "legally" through Ellis Island.

See...US Citizens.

Next?

[venkman]

I'll bite. So, if the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico officially applied for statehood, you'd be opposed?

What about the State of Sicily?

LOL, Sicily? Yeah, I'd be opposed. Puerto Rico, maybe, if they adopted English as the official language. Then again, they'd be a lock for the the dems, so I'm not sure.

[il Padrino Ute]

I'll bite. So, if the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico officially applied for statehood, you'd be opposed?

What about the State of Sicily?

I'd be all for that.

[venkman]

That sounds like bitter hyperbole to me, venkman. Most statistics I've seen indicate that very few of them don't work. As of last year, the unemployment rate amongst illegal immigrants was even slightly lower than the rate amongst citizens. The national rate was something like 6% and the rate amongst illegal immigrants was just under 5%.

Not bitter at all. Unemployment doesn't count those who aren't looking for jobs, such as stay at home moms. They're not workers, they're not citizens, they are illegal immigrants. I'm not denigrating the work ethic of illegal immigrants, I'm just saying undocumented workers is a stupid euphemism.

[wuapinmon]

What did you or I do to become citizens other than be born here? Why isn't it absurd for us to be granted citizenship just because our parents "dropped" us here?

Please explain why it is absurd. Absurd is very subjective. Your current interpretation doesn't jive with US Law. You have to consider the two methods of determining birthright, jus soli and jus sanguinis. Which one do you prefer....why? Neither are absurd, they are two different ways of dealing with the same issue. Is nationality a function of blood relation or place of birth? I side strongly with US History and say I am absolutely 100% jus soli because I think that the principle of being born in the land of the free should apply to all. We are America, not the Old World....you can be whatever you want to be here. I think jus soli has enabled us to overcome some of the larger societal upheavals that our Continental allies have faced. Look at the social strife in Germany, France, Italy, Ireland, or the UK. I'll take jus soli, and the knowledge that I can move from any country in the world and become "American" and my kids be American (without quotes). No matter what I do, if I moved to Italy, had kids, and my kids had grandkids, I and they would never be "Italian" at its essence. We would always be Americans. That doesn't happen here. America is special, in my opinion.* One's immigration status, to me, should not matter because of the Fourteenth Amendment.

I also feel that because of the "foundling" clauses in most jus sanguinis nations' laws, we would see a marked amount of infant abandonments in the US so that the parents could give their kids a better life. Not all UDWs have kids here just so that they can get US citizenship.


*The USA isn't the only nation in the Americas wherein this can happen. Brazil, Argentina, Chile have all been able to integrate massive ethnic differences.

[wuapinmon]

If more Mexicans were allowed in legally, fewer would be here illegally.

That's just it.................my relatives demand that they come here legally, but then refuse to consider a way to make them legal. They say no "amnesty" as if this were a criminal act rather than a civil one. CUF Attorneys, which is it....criminal or civil (I honestly don't know)?

We could easily find a way for most UDW to be here legally. If we imposed a huge fee on them, they would pay it. If we made them jump through hoops, they would jump. They want to be here because they want a better life than they can have wherever their parents "dropped" them.

[Indy Coug]

I have a very hard time feeling sorry for illegal immigrants in America that can't get citizenship status when I have someone in my branch from Ecuador that spent nearly 20 years trying to immigrate legally to the US and once he was finally able to legally immigrate, only he and his three girls were allowed to enter the country because his wife's paperwork was screwed up somehow. They have been apart for three years and it appears that it will probably take at least another two years before they are reunited.

The US needs to overhaul the legal immigration process to reward a family like this instead of turning them into the kind of horror story that results in so many others immigrating illegally.

[wuapinmon]

I have a very hard time feeling sorry for illegal immigrants in America that can't get citizenship status when I have someone in my branch from Ecuador that spent nearly 20 years trying to immigrate legally to the US and once he was finally able to legally immigrate, only he and his three girls were allowed to enter the country because his wife's paperwork was screwed up somehow. They have been apart for three years and it appears that it will probably take at least another two years before they are reunited.

The US needs to overhaul the legal immigration process to reward a family like this instead of turning them into the kind of horror story that results in so many others immigrating illegally.

I feel sorry for all of them......some for the xenophobia that prevents them from getting the right to work, and others, like your friends, who face the Kafkaesque byzantine route of doing it "legally."

[Joe Public]

Well, I guess we know where Trump stands on this issue.