Natural Born Citizens

[BlueHair]

In fact, I'll go one further. Put the pen in my hand and give me leave to edit the constitution as I will, and that phrase is gone. If a person is so qualified to serve over the nation, and the people want that person to serve them in their hightest office, I see no reason why having been born on the other side of a line on a map should prevent it.

I'm just grateful that Arnold can never be president.

[All-American]

I'm just grateful that Arnold can never be president.

I wouldn't vote for him, myself, but of all the reasons Arnold should never be president, the fact that he was born in Austria is not exactly pressing.

[FMCoug]

I wouldn't vote for him, myself, but of all the reasons Arnold should never be president, the fact that he was born in Austria is not exactly pressing.

Agree. How exactly is Barack Obama "more American" than Arnold Shwarznegger?

[thesaint258]

Ladies and gentlemen, if a law says that you cannot and never will be something and are never to enjoy certain privileges because of who your parents are, that law is wrong.

But that's not what people are saying. They're not saying, "Your parents came here illegally so you can never be an American citizen. They're saying, go through the process like everyone else has to. Also, it's not because of who their parents are, it's what their parents did, and we limit what children can do because of what their parents did all the time. For example, children can't see their parents if the parents did things to warrant the removal of their children, or children may not be able see their father if that person is a sex offender, even if the offense didn't involve that person's own children.

[TripletDaddy]

If your parents aren't US Citizens, then neither are you.

If my parents are US and we were in Canada when I was born, I shouldn't be a Canadian citizen because of where I dropped.

I should be what my parents are. If my parents are illegal in the US, then I would be illegal newborn.

Seems logical to me.

tick, brother, you are awesome, but you may want to rethink your Canada example. hint: yes, you would be eligible for Canadian citizenship

Persons Born in Canada After February 14, 1977
Section 3(1)(a) of the Current Act states that anyone born in Canada after February 14, 1977 is considered a Canadian citizen. This was the date that the Current Act came into force.



Immigration Status of Parents
The immigration status of the parents at the time of the Canadian citizenship child's birth is not relevant to the child's eligibility for Canadian citizenship. A child born in Canada to two illegal alien parents would still be considered a Canadian citizen. However, Section 3(2) of the Current Act contains an exception to the above rule, at least for persons born in Canada after February 15, 1977. It states that Canadian citizenship is not granted to a child born in Canada if, at the time of his/her birth, neither of his/her parents was a Canadian citizen or Canadian permanent resident and either parent was:

1. a diplomatic or consular officer or other representative or employee of a foreign government in Canada;
2. an employee in the service of a person referred to in paragraph (a); or
3. an officer or employee in Canada of a specialized agency of the United Nations or an officer or employee in Canada of any other international organization to whom they are granted, by or any other Act of Parliament, diplomatic privileges and immunities certified by the Secretary of State for External Affairs to be equivalent to those granted to a person or persons referred to in paragraph (a).

[All-American]

But that's not what people are saying. They're not saying, "Your parents came here illegally so you can never be an American citizen. They're saying, go through the process like everyone else has to. Also, it's not because of who their parents are, it's what their parents did, and we limit what children can do because of what their parents did all the time. For example, children can't see their parents if the parents did things to warrant the removal of their children, or children may not be able see their father if that person is a sex offender, even if the offense didn't involve that person's own children.

I was referring to the constitutional requirement that says you must be a natural born citizen to be president. Granted, that doesn't usually come up.

But I will revise my statement after considering your input. A law that says you may not enjoy certain privileges because of who your parents are or what your parents did is wrong.

[venkman]

Agree. How exactly is Barack Obama "more American" than Arnold Shwarznegger?

He was born in Kenya, so...he's not.

[The_Tick]

tick, brother, you are awesome, but you may want to rethink your Canada example. hint: yes, you would be eligible for Canadian citizenship

I don't know what Canadian law was, but what I was saying is that I "shouldn't" be a Canadian citizen.

The fact that 2 illegals can come here and drop a kid and that kid is a US Citizen the second it takes a breath is absurd.

Then, 14 years later, when the parents are found out to be illegal and are beign deported (as they should be) the kid is a US citizen. So...now we are tearing a family apart.

Should we:

A - Legally enforce the immigration status on the parents and deport them. Thus either stranding a kid here in the US or sending the kid back to a foriegn country they have never been too...

or

B - Do nothing with the parents, because we don't want to upset the child.

Currently we do B, which encourages loads of people to sneak over to have kids.

If we did A, extremely frequently, it would curb it.

It is a law that is assinine.

[venkman]

I'm not advocating repealing the Constituion....indeed, I'd like to welcome more countries to apply for statehood, so that we have a truer USA.

Well, that's good to hear, but no country is going to apply for statehood. Any North American or North/South American Union would be extra-constitutional , much the same way the EU trumps member nations laws.

Besides, the culture and language differences between the U.S. and Latin America would make a truly united Union impossible. (Not to mention that half the Central America is Marxist now, do we really want that cancer infecting us? Oh wait, we have Obama...nevermind.)

Given your relatives and upbringing in the south, you may have a hard time believing that my objections have nothing to do with race, but they don't. I may be a crazy right-winger, but I'm not a crazy racist.

[Indy Coug]

Ladies and gentlemen, if a law says that you cannot and never will be something and are never to enjoy certain privileges because of who your parents are, that law is wrong.

I'm not sure where denying someone automatic citizenship simply due to where they are born is tantamount to NEVER WILL BE in terms of being able to receive legal status in the future.

I'm torn on the issue.

[TripletDaddy]

Why is it absurd? I get that you think it is absurd, but nobody has yet to articulate a reason "why" it would be absurd.

There are loads of countries that recognize the doctrine of jus soli (right of soil). It is not unique to the US & A. Maybe 40-50 countries have this sort of thing in place, with several more that have a form of it with certain exceptions.

As to your point about whether separating families would curb this type of behavior, once again, your timing and choice of examples is uncanny....from today's CNN...

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapc...ron/index.html

Parents would leave their children if it meant a better life for them. People already risk their lives for shot at living in the US. In doing so, they already are leaving behind members of their family.

[wuapinmon]

Why is it absurd? I get that you think it is absurd, but nobody has yet to articulate a reason "why" it would be absurd.

There are loads of countries that recognize the doctrine of jus soli (right of soil). It is not unique to the US & A. Maybe 40-50 countries have this sort of thing in place, with several more that have a form of it with certain exceptions.

As to your point about whether separating families would curb this type of behavior, once again, your timing and choice of examples is uncanny....from today's CNN...

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapc...ron/index.html

Parents would leave their children if it meant a better life for them. People already risk their lives for shot at living in the US. In doing so, they already are leaving behind members of their family.

This is one of the more haunting songs/poems about leaving everything behind for a chance at a better life in El Norte.

Ya me voy muy lejos el pueblo, [I'm leaving now, very far away from my people/town}
Empacando maletas, guardando recuerdos [packing bags, keeping memories]
De amor [of love]
Ya me voy rumbo al Norte [I'm leaving now, the direction of the North]
Dejo novia, mis calles, mi gente, mi México [I leave behind my girlfriend, my streets, my people, my Mexico]

*Ay, ay, ay, ay,
Algún día yo volveré [Someday I *shall return]
Ay, ay, ay, ay
Te prometo, mi amor [I promise you, my love]

No lloraré mientras camino [I shall not cry as I walk]
El desierto y la luna se vienen conmigo [The desert and the moon are coming with me]
No, yo no sé dónde va el tren [No, I don't know where the train is going]
Te lo juro mi amor, por ti volveré [I promise you my love, for you, I shall return]

No sé si comeré ni dónde dormiré [I don't know where I will eat, nor where I will sleep]
Pero con tu recuerdo del frío, me cubriré [But I will cover myself against the cold with your memory]
Créeme amor, se necesita valor [Believe me, my love, you need to be brave]
Y no creo que el desierto y la luna [and I don't think that the desert and the moon]
Me den tu amor [can give me your love]

No lloraré mientras camino
El desierto y la luna se vienen conmigo
No, yo no sé donde va el tren
Te lo juro mi amor, por ti volveré

Por ti volveré [I will come back to get you]
Por ti volveré [I will come back because of you]
Por ti volveré [I will come back for you]
Por ti volveré [I shall return for you]

* The future tense in Spanish has a far stronger meaning than it does in English. To use the future in Spanish is to declare intent to do something, so I translated it as 'shall.' At the end I use 'will' instead of 'shall,' because he repeats it four times, so the effect is the same. I translated the refrain four different ways because it can mean all of these things when translated. So much is lost in translation.

[wuapinmon]

Well, that's good to hear, but no country is going to apply for statehood. Any North American or North/South American Union would be extra-constitutional , much the same way the EU trumps member nations laws.

Besides, the culture and language differences between the U.S. and Latin America would make a truly united Union impossible. (Not to mention that half the Central America is Marxist now, do we really want that cancer infecting us? Oh wait, we have Obama...nevermind.)

Given your relatives and upbringing in the south, you may have a hard time believing that my objections have nothing to do with race, but they don't. I may be a crazy right-winger, but I'm not a crazy racist.

I'll bite. So, if the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico officially applied for statehood, you'd be opposed?

What about the State of Sicily?

[Indy Coug]

I'll bite. So, if the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico officially applied for statehood, you'd be opposed?

What about the State of Sicily?

I'd object to Sicily. That would be an administrative nightmare.

[BlueHair]

I don't know what Canadian law was, but what I was saying is that I "shouldn't" be a Canadian citizen.

The fact that 2 illegals can come here and drop a kid and that kid is a US Citizen the second it takes a breath is absurd.

Then, 14 years later, when the parents are found out to be illegal and are beign deported (as they should be) the kid is a US citizen. So...now we are tearing a family apart.

Should we:

A - Legally enforce the immigration status on the parents and deport them. Thus either stranding a kid here in the US or sending the kid back to a foriegn country they have never been too...

or

B - Do nothing with the parents, because we don't want to upset the child.

Currently we do B, which encourages loads of people to sneak over to have kids.

If we did A, extremely frequently, it would curb it.

It is a law that is assinine.

What did you or I do to become citizens other than be born here? Why isn't it absurd for us to be granted citizenship just because our parents "dropped" us here?