Obama with Brown this morning

[byu71]

Seriously, 71, seriously... I'm seriously asking you here... do you really mean to be this sensationalistic? Do you really, REALLY equate hippies with Manson? Please tell me you're not really that shallow.

Dramatizing to make a point. Being senstionalistic, which you picked up on, by definition means you don't really mean it. I would hope over the years you have discovered I have the brain power to dramatize without thinking everyone will take me serious.

However, I wouldn't want Hippies allocating assets for everyone either. That I am not dramatizing.

[Tim]

Dramatizing to make a point. Being senstionalistic, which you picked up on, by definition means you don't really mean it. I would hope over the years you have discovered I have the brain power to dramatize without thinking everyone will take me serious.

However, I wouldn't want Hippies allocating assets for everyone either. That I am not dramatizing.

My apologies. I grew up with parents for whom exaggeration, overstatement, and melodrama ran as thickly as blood through his veins. I still tend to recoil at the very appearance of similar exercises of those devices. An example of the majesty of his work:

- I grew up (and my family still lives) in the high desert of California, out Death Valley way. Strong winds were a daily way of life. We would recycle aluminum cans, and we kept the cans in big garbage containers (basically big trash cans) in the side yard. Every so often the wind would knock the containers over and the cans would go blowing all over the side yard. We'd have to go out and pick them up and put them in the containers, secure the containers, etc. On several occasions my dad would storm in after work, pissed off at us about how he had asked us to clean up the cans, and how there were cans "allllll over the side yard" (said while slowly moving his outstretched arm from left to right as if to convey a large area. My older brother Frank and I would go into the side yard and literally see like 1 or 2 cans that we had missed, usually because they were hidden behind something or only visible from some strange angle, or while crouching down, or whatever. That crap pissed my brother and I off all the time.

- My mother would come home from the grocery store, carrying a bag of groceries. She'd be all in a hurry, huffing and puffing, and she'd say something like "Can you please help me bring in the groceries?" Seeing her in distress, I'd go out and bring in a couple of bags of groceries, only to realize that she hadn't followed me back out to bring in more groceries herself. I'd make the three or four trips back and forth to the driveway to bring the groceries in. Then I'd see her sitting on the couch drinking a Diet Pepsi or gabbing on the phone. In reality, of course, "Help me bring in the groceries" meant "Go bring in the groceries." That kind of crap pissed me off every time it happened. I had no problem helping with things like that, I just hated the way she'd use dramatic tactics to manipulate me. I would've been 1,000 times happier with that kind of situation if she had just said "Please help me by bringing in the groceries." It's like they thought we were idiots or something, and that we didn't keep tabs on how we communicated with them.

Obviously I'm just venting here. Did I have a happy childhood? Not really. My parents argued all the time (every night). My dad was deeply depressed, and only improved when I was 17 or so and he finally decided to get his depression medicated. My mom died a couple of years later. I don't know if I would've been able to escape from my genetic inclination to use drama to get my way if she were still alive.

[byu71]

My apologies. I grew up with parents for whom exaggeration, overstatement, and melodrama ran as thickly as blood through his veins. I still tend to recoil at the very appearance of similar exercises of those devices. An example of the majesty of his work:

- I grew up (and my family still lives) in the high desert of California, out Death Valley way. Strong winds were a daily way of life. We would recycle aluminum cans, and we kept the cans in big garbage containers (basically big trash cans) in the side yard. Every so often the wind would knock the containers over and the cans would go blowing all over the side yard. We'd have to go out and pick them up and put them in the containers, secure the containers, etc. On several occasions my dad would storm in after work, pissed off at us about how he had asked us to clean up the cans, and how there were cans "allllll over the side yard" (said while slowly moving his outstretched arm from left to right as if to convey a large area. My older brother Frank and I would go into the side yard and literally see like 1 or 2 cans that we had missed, usually because they were hidden behind something or only visible from some strange angle, or while crouching down, or whatever. That crap pissed my brother and I off all the time.

- My mother would come home from the grocery store, carrying a bag of groceries. She'd be all in a hurry, huffing and puffing, and she'd say something like "Can you please help me bring in the groceries?" Seeing her in distress, I'd go out and bring in a couple of bags of groceries, only to realize that she hadn't followed me back out to bring in more groceries herself. I'd make the three or four trips back and forth to the driveway to bring the groceries in. Then I'd see her sitting on the couch drinking a Diet Pepsi or gabbing on the phone. In reality, of course, "Help me bring in the groceries" meant "Go bring in the groceries." That kind of crap pissed me off every time it happened. I had no problem helping with things like that, I just hated the way she'd use dramatic tactics to manipulate me. I would've been 1,000 times happier with that kind of situation if she had just said "Please help me by bringing in the groceries." It's like they thought we were idiots or something, and that we didn't keep tabs on how we communicated with them.

Obviously I'm just venting here. Did I have a happy childhood? Not really. My parents argued all the time (every night). My dad was deeply depressed, and only improved when I was 17 or so and he finally decided to get his depression medicated. My mom died a couple of years later. I don't know if I would've been able to escape from my genetic inclination to use drama to get my way if she were still alive.

I actually understand. There are things that set me off and I have to think deep to figure out what set me off.

I get really set off when someone talks like what they know is a fact and for sure. I think that comes from when I was a kid everything was for sure in my life.

The whole of the gospel was true. What my parents said was fact. What the brethern did and said was straight from God.

I have discussed this with my folks and in all reality they act like where did I get this from and in all reality as I dealt with them as an adult I find they weren't as black and white on things.

However, I think I was dissapointed and maybe angry to find out things aren't as black and white as we would like to think or maybe like to have it be.

[RobinFinderson]

Hippies, for the most part, are awesome.

[il Padrino Ute]

Hippies, for the most part, are awesome.

Like thinking what is humorous, we'll have to disagree about this, as I see nothing awesome about hippies.

[YOhio]

Hippies, for the most part, are awesome.

I know hippies. I've hated them all my life.

[RobinFinderson]

About 90% of the hippies from the Sixties were HINO's (hippies in name only). They were into it for the drugs and sex and because it was the cool thing to do. Most of those hippies went on to become the douche bags that wore polyester leisure suits in the 70's, became Reagan democrats in the 80's, built up economic power in the 90's, and then ruined the economy in the 00's.

But folks who self-select to be hippies these days tend to be the real thing. They look at the cultural landscape and say, "Too many people are working too hard to collect a bunch of crap. Count me out. I'm going to work to live, and not live to work." Hippies, for the most part, are awesome.

[YOhio]

About 90% of the hippies from the Sixties were HINO's (hippies in name only). They were into it for the drugs and sex and because it was the cool thing to do. Most of those hippies went on to become the douche bags that wore polyester leisure suits in the 70's, became Reagan democrats in the 80's, built up economic power in the 90's, and then ruined the economy in the 00's.

But folks who self-select to be hippies these days tend to be the real thing. They look at the cultural landscape and say, "Too many people are working too hard to collect a bunch of crap. Count me out. I'm going to work to live, and not live to work." Hippies, for the most part, are awesome.

Blah, blah, blah.

[RobinFinderson]

Blah, blah, blah.

You need to hop on the bus, man!

[byu71]

About 90% of the hippies from the Sixties were HINO's (hippies in name only). They were into it for the drugs and sex and because it was the cool thing to do. Most of those hippies went on to become the douche bags that wore polyester leisure suits in the 70's, became Reagan democrats in the 80's, built up economic power in the 90's, and then ruined the economy in the 00's.

But folks who self-select to be hippies these days tend to be the real thing. They look at the cultural landscape and say, "Too many people are working too hard to collect a bunch of crap. Count me out. I'm going to work to live, and not live to work." Hippies, for the most part, are awesome.

Funny, that is the same quote most lazy people use. I am not going to work hard to collect a bunch of crap.

I am not saying hippies are lazy, just that it was interesting they both use the same line.

[RobinFinderson]

Funny, that is the same quote most lazy people use. I am not going to work hard to collect a bunch of crap.

I am not saying hippies are lazy, just that it was interesting they both use the same line.

What is the difference between someone who is 'lazy' and someone who is philosophically against working hard for materialistic gain?

While you are at it, what is the purpose of life? IMO, people work way too hard. Get a good education. Get a good job that pays well, but lets you have lots of leisure time. Work as little as possible. Read good books, travel a bit, and cherish your friends and family.

[UtahDan]

I was watching the newsconference this morning and Obama talked a lot about coming to listen and not to lecture (not so bad) and highlighted how much stimulus many of the G-20 were already doing. Sounds like behind closed doors the Euros in the G-20 gave him the stiff middle finger on U.S. demands for more stimulus from our economic allies.

Well, at least he's having tea with the queen. Add that to his having a fleet of helicopters, an airplane, and a resort in the Catoctins, and life is pretty cool.

That is pretty surprising to me, because I had been thinking that if we just changed our tone and ended every sentence with pretty please, that we could really start getting results from diplomacy again. I mean, when other countries talk pretty to us, we abandon our own interests and give them what they want, right?

[byu71]

What is the difference between someone who is 'lazy' and someone who is philosophically against working hard for materialistic gain?

While you are at it, what is the purpose of life? IMO, people work way too hard. Get a good education. Get a good job that pays well, but lets you have lots of leisure time. Work as little as possible. Read good books, travel a bit, and cherish your friends and family.

The lazy person basically lets the other person carry the load for them or they make excuses why they don't get what someone else has. If they don't want what the other person has, that certainly isn't being lazy.

Suppose someone chooses to have a steady 8-5 non pressure job and enjoy doing something else. Someone else desires to work 5-10 and bust their butt building a business. I don't judge either, they are doing what they want. You seem to be the one who wants to judge the person doing the capitalisic thing.

I have a hard time believing you are as myopic in your view of things as you come across. I admire someone that is adept at chain yanking. Perhaps you are very good at it.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

That is pretty surprising to me, because I had been thinking that if we just changed our tone and ended every sentence with pretty please, that we could really start getting results from diplomacy again. I mean, when other countries talk pretty to us, we abandon our own interests and give them what they want, right?

Suprisingly the "pretty please" approach to diplomacy doesn't work so well with the likes of Russia and Iran. Hell, it doesn't even work with Germany or France.

One of the more shocking things is how Germany and France are the ones on the opposite side of the bailout/nationalization debate.

[RobinFinderson]

Suppose someone chooses to have a steady 8-5 non pressure job and enjoy doing something else. Someone else desires to work 5-10 and bust their butt building a business. I don't judge either, they are doing what they want. You seem to be the one who wants to judge the person doing the capitalisic thing.

I don't really have a problem with either person you mention, but 8-5 is still way too much work. Do you realize that if you had a little patch of dirt, access to water and sunshine, you could feed your family WELL, shelter yourselves WELL, clothe yourselves WELL, on only about three hours of labor a day? Now if you have a spouse and children old enough to work, you could THRIVE on three hours of work each day. If you lived in a colder climate, or in a place where the earth wasn't as fertile, it might take a bit more work and planning. You wouldn't have money for a mobile phone and a new computer, but you would have healthy food, a healthy body, a life full of rich social experience, and loads of leisure time to read books, write books, enrich your children's lives, etc.

The problem with capitalism is that there is no simple way to opt out of it and get back to a kind of simplicity in life that I (and other hippies) think is the real nourishing stuff of life.

If we are going to keep up with the capitalism experiment, we really ought to figure out a reasonable 'opt out' option for the millions of hippies who want nothing to do with it... sort of like the kibbutz movement in Israel. We need the equivalent of national kibbutzes where folks can go, put in a lifetime of honest work doing something good, have their basic needs taken care of, and have the bigger half of their lives to pursue good stuff.

Capitalism just doesn't support the stuff in life that really matters. It puts out one carrot after another, tempting folks to spend more time at the office, less time with their children, more time on the road, less time doing stuff that makes the world better. It encourages consumption and pollution, and it distances us from the dirty things that are done to deliver us an endless supply of crap, so we consume all kinds of goods with no sense of what the environmental cost of those goods was.

Modern life is nice in some ways, but at the same time we are all getting fat and filling the earth with poisonous garbage, and we are continually on the brink of nuclear disaster... so I'm just not so sure it is really worth it.