Romney

[Green Monstah]

That he's a closet unbeliever?

Yes. In both instances it's people who claimed to know him professionally. I wonder if it's just a matter of "I can't believe a devout Mormon would be that smart/talented/ruthless" or whatever.

I took it with a huge grain of salt, but his changing political views does make one wonder just how principled he is.

[Uncle Ted]

That he's a closet unbeliever?

Yes, I believe Romney is for homosexuals to be able to openly serve in the military. Of course, that may change next week.

[LA Ute]

I am a Mitt homer, but still.... He has changed his position on some issues, but is not a weather vane. I.e., he's flipped on some issues, but not flopped. Sounds funny but it's true. There really isn't reason to think he's going to change his mind over and over again on various issues. I'm open to evidence to the contrary, of course.

[Uncle Ted]

I am a Mitt homer, but still.... He has changed his position on some a helluva lot of major issues, but is not a weather vane. I.e., he's flipped on some issues, but not flopped. Sounds funny but it's true. There really isn't reason to think he's going to change his mind over and over again on various issues. I'm open to evidence to the contrary, of course.

FIFY.

The DNC is going to eat him alive on this issue if he becomes the GOP's man...

[YOUTUBE]K9njHHyRI7g[/YOUTUBE]

[oxcoug]

Yes. In both instances it's people who claimed to know him professionally. I wonder if it's just a matter of "I can't believe a devout Mormon would be that smart/talented/ruthless" or whatever.

I took it with a huge grain of salt, but his changing political views does make one wonder just how principled he is.

Yeah I don't buy this. I know some people who are close to his family and he was my brother's stake prez for a couple of years - every indication (including his dedication as a Bishop and a Stake President) is that his convictions about Mormonism are real.

[Green Monstah]

I am a Mitt homer, but still.... He has changed his position on some issues, but is not a weather vane. I.e., he's flipped on some issues, but not flopped. Sounds funny but it's true. There really isn't reason to think he's going to change his mind over and over again on various issues. I'm open to evidence to the contrary, of course.

I think the current Mitt is the real Mitt, but it does make one wonder why he felt he had to sell out in 94 and 02.

Edit: its clear why he sold out, but it makes me wonder why politi al office was so important to him that he sold out.

[oxcoug]

I think the current Mitt is the real Mitt, but it does make one wonder why he felt he had to sell out in 94 and 02.

Edit: its clear why he sold out, but it makes me wonder why politi al office was so important to him that he sold out.

He's struck some postures that have made me uncomfortable, but on the key issues I'm not sure I buy that he ever "sold out" in terms of compromising personal principles.

On gay rights - the popular meme that he's switched on this just isn't accurate. Gay marriage wasn't a part of the national conversation when he made those comments about defending gay rights in 1994. And there isn't any necessary conflict between opposing gay marriage while advocating for gay rights. (I know many disagree, but the position is defensible).

On abortion - to say "I am personally opposed and want to see abortions reduced but will uphold the law of the land" isn't quite the contortion that many think that it is. And the transition to being fully publicly pro-life actually mirrors a shift in public opinion as infants have become viable at earlier points.

Anyway - I think his "flip flops" have been magnified and exaggerated.

I'm definitely not saying that he's not guilty of some disgusting pandering - on that front I'm more bothered by him joining the NRA in 2006 than I am by anything else, just because it was so transparently calculated.

[Uncle Ted]

I think the current Mitt is the real Mitt, but it does make one wonder why he felt he had to sell out in 94 and 02.

Edit: its clear why he sold out, but it makes me wonder why politi al office was so important to him that he sold out.

[PaloAltoCougar]

Watching the video Uncle Ted has posted, I was struck by the very first (and thus presumably one of the strongest) examples they used of Romney flipflopping: Romney first saying "I've never supported the President's recovery act, 'the stimulus,'", and then his follow-up statement (not sure it came before or after the first comment, but it doesn't matter), "I think there is need for economic stimulus."

I don't think I'm being a Romney apologist here, but why are those two statements thought to be a great example of a flip flop? Can't one support the concept of an economic stimulus, without loving the President's version that was rife with bad spending choices and misallocations?

[RobinFinderson]

Watching the video Uncle Ted has posted, I was struck by the very first (and thus presumably one of the strongest) examples they used of Romney flipflopping: Romney first saying "I've never supported the President's recovery act, 'the stimulus,'", and then his follow-up statement (not sure it came before or after the first comment, but it doesn't matter), "I think there is need for economic stimulus."

I don't think I'm being a Romney apologist here, but why are those two statements thought to be a great example of a flip flop? Can't one support the concept of an economic stimulus, without loving the President's version that was rife with bad spending choices and misallocations?

Of course. You are exactly right here. I thought the same thing, but didn't care enough to point it out. Romeny isn't nearly the flip-flopper that people claim he is.

[RobinFinderson]

He's struck some postures that have made me uncomfortable, but on the key issues I'm not sure I buy that he ever "sold out" in terms of compromising personal principles.

On gay rights - the popular meme that he's switched on this just isn't accurate. Gay marriage wasn't a part of the national conversation when he made those comments about defending gay rights in 1994. And there isn't any necessary conflict between opposing gay marriage while advocating for gay rights. (I know many disagree, but the position is defensible).

On abortion - to say "I am personally opposed and want to see abortions reduced but will uphold the law of the land" isn't quite the contortion that many think that it is. And the transition to being fully publicly pro-life actually mirrors a shift in public opinion as infants have become viable at earlier points.

Anyway - I think his "flip flops" have been magnified and exaggerated.

I'm definitely not saying that he's not guilty of some disgusting pandering - on that front I'm more bothered by him joining the NRA in 2006 than I am by anything else, just because it was so transparently calculated.

Same response to you as PAC. I look at most of these alleged flip flops and don't really consider them to be flip flops at all. And his NRA joining might be pandering, but it isn't a flip flop (as far as I know). I probably don't really care about it, because I generally support the cause of the NRA (though I would never put those causes ahead of other, more important causes).

[Uncle Ted]

Out of the current crop of GOP presidential candidates I think Romney is the best besides Ron Paul, of course. I have been voting for (or wasting my vote on) Ron Paul for some time now so I am pretty set in my ways. It is pretty fun to stir up all the Romney bobbleheads around here.

[oxcoug]

Can't one support the concept of an economic stimulus, without loving the President's version that was rife with bad spending choices and misallocations?

Exactly.

[SeattleUte]

Out of the current crop of GOP presidential candidates I think Romney is the best besides Ron Paul, of course. I have been voting for (or wasting my vote on) Ron Paul for some time now so I am pretty set in my ways. It is pretty fun to stir up all the Romney bobbleheads around here.

How do you explain Paul's Nazi past?

[LA Ute]

How do you explain Paul's Nazi past?

Paul's not about Paul, he's about certain ideas. So the crazy things he's said don't really count, in the minds of his supporters. Just visit Reason.com. You'll see a lot of really smart people extolling Paul's ideas, but not him. It's only shocking until you realize they know he has no chance of becoming president.