The Police Brutality Thread

[Copelius]

We used to have one of those in the courtroom about once a month in Fairbanks. We had to respond to their prefab motions, which were clearly taken from the internet. I always wondered why, when they got the language from the internet, did they take the time to handwrite them. It was such a drain on resources, but the judges made us address their arguments each time to take away any appeal potential.

[Pelado]

Some of you might not have gotten All American's reference to the yellow fringe on the flag in a Trump photo, but paranoia about the yellow/gold fringe is a thing in the sovereign citizen movement. Those sovereign citizen folks are nutso.

On Wednesday the cops shot and killed a 25 year old man in Farmington after a traffic stop. The original article makes it seem like his family is just a normal everyday family although it did say he was pulled over for driving a vehicle without a license plate:

https://www.ksl.com/article/50591878...newalling-them



Now more of the story is starting to come out. It turns out this family was into the sovereign citizen movement, the mother had filed a federal lawsuit against Farmington cops over a traffic stop last year, and the son, and possibly the vehicle, was definitely known to the cops:

https://www.ksl.com/article/50592285...p-5-months-ago

While the article never mentions the "sovereign citizen" movement, the quotes and descriptions from the lawsuit are littered with sovereign citizen language:


The "right to travel" is mumbo jumbo that sovereign citizens spout all the time. They think they can simply show a passport to avoid any arrest or detention because of the blurb in the front of it where Secretary of State directs the citizen be allowed to "pass without delay or hindrance". Many sovereign citizens refuse to pay taxes yet think it's their inalienable right to drive on public roads that were built and maintained by the very taxes they refuse to pay.



More sovereign citizen mumbo jumbo. They think they can simply write specific words and phrases on bills or tickets and then they don't have pay them.



An injunction against the cops from participating in her court proceedings (the very cops that she's suing in federal court)? The lawsuit, as described and quoted from in the article, is complete gibberish. There is a bunch more info about it in the article, but the family is definitely loony tunes.

I have no idea whether the Farmington cops had justification to shoot the dude, but I can definitely believe that he was uncooperative, as the cops stated, if he was part of the sovereign citizen movement. The body cam footage will be interesting when it is released, and it will be interesting to see how the shooting is investigated because the mother had also named the Davis County Attorney's Office and Davis County Justice Court in her federal lawsuit.

Is this saying he was studying law at Utah State, or just that he was studying law? Do they have a law school? If not USU, then where? What law was he studying?

Allan played soccer at UC Davis and Utah State University — where he received his degree — and he was studying law the past few years, the family said.

[BigFatMeanie]

Is this saying he was studying law at Utah State, or just that he was studying law? Do they have a law school? If not USU, then where? What law was he studying?

I thought about that. I wonder if his law study was legit at a law school or if it was a "self-taught" sovereign citizen study of the law?

[BigPiney]

the former crazy member of my ward probably believes this crap. He wouldn't let his kids get social security numbers. Called them "slave security numbers". He is very dumb.

[frank ryan]

Wait a minute. This sovereign citizen BS declares you can just make up your own rules about registration, driver licences, etc, but then she files a lawsuit and wants to use the legal system to get her way? Lol. Come on, you can't have it both ways.

Man, I can't stand Sov. Citizens. I've a had experience. They are worse than Juggalos.

[chrisrenrut]

The body cam footage will be interesting when it is released,

Reports are there was a gun in the car, and an empty holster on his belt. It almost sounds like suicidal by cop. Or trying to be a martyr for the cause.

[Pelado]

Man, I can't stand Sov. Citizens. I've a had experience. They are worse than Juggalos.

Don't think I'd ever heard of Juggalos before.

My exposure to sovereign citizen crap is pretty limited. I remember seeing something about it back when I was in school. The guy said such and such Internal Revenue Code section meant that people could opt out of income tax. I looked up the code section, and - surprise - it didn't say what they claimed (at all). When I asked the guy about it later, he didn't have any good answers.

[BigPiney]

Don't think I'd ever heard of Juggalos before.

My exposure to sovereign citizen crap is pretty limited. I remember seeing something about it back when I was in school. The guy said such and such Internal Revenue Code section meant that people could opt out of income tax. I looked up the code section, and - surprise - it didn't say what they claimed (at all). When I asked the guy about it later, he didn't have any good answers.

There was a really funny episode of Workaholics where they went to a Juggalo event. That is where I learned about them

[frank ryan]

Don't think I'd ever heard of Juggalos before.

My exposure to sovereign citizen crap is pretty limited. I remember seeing something about it back when I was in school. The guy said such and such Internal Revenue Code section meant that people could opt out of income tax. I looked up the code section, and - surprise - it didn't say what they claimed (at all). When I asked the guy about it later, he didn't have any good answers.

Annoyingly stubborn people with strange and vaguely criminal beliefs.

[frank ryan]

I thought about that. I wonder if his law study was legit at a law school or if it was a "self-taught" sovereign citizen study of the law?

That's exactly what is was. These people call themselves constitutional law scholars.

[Donuthole]

One of my most satisfying accomplishments as a lawyer was getting a summary judgment ruling on a sovereign citizen in Orem who had basically spent 10+ years not paying his mortgage, and then filing a phony Bankruptcy or some other dilatory tactic for getting the foreclosure sale stayed. The process would always end with some repayment agreement and/or loan modification agreement, and the guy would make a single payment and then promptly stop paying, starting the process all over again. By the time I was on the file, the guy was claiming that 6 years had run from the notice of default, and thus the statute of limitations had expired and the house was his, free and clear. Yeah, guy, thats how it works. I spent a lot of time briefing the issues and laying out the entire story, from beginning to end. And that the guy was basically arguing that a bankruptcy repayment plan that he agreed to in open court but refused to sign thereafter and never made a payment on, created a loophole that kept the statute running on the prior-recorded notice of default. It became clear that he was down a sovereign citizen wormhole online and believed this loophole was his way to a free house.

It took me 9 months of briefing and other motion work, but by the time I was done, the court had a very clear picture of just how many times this guy had done this over the prior decade. Based on the briefing, Federal Court in Utah granted summary judgment and issued a pre-emptory order that the next foreclosure sale should not be stayed for any reason. The guy appealed to the 10th circuit, and the ruling was upheld. The best part about it being upheld is that the court didn't address any of his appellate arguments, because they were all new arguments and not made at the district court level (where the guy represented himself the entire time.) If you go online and read the 10th circuit ruling, it is basically my MSJ copied, verbatim, until it gets to the appellate analysis.

I was at that firm for 9 months, and hated pretty much every minute of it, other than the time I spent on this case. It was the first case I worked on (the complaint and motion to stay foreclosure sale literally came in on my first morning on the job) and the SJ hearing and order were the last things I did at that firm.

Also, the guy was such a POS, he filed a complaint against the church for not paying his mortgage for him:

Man's suit against his bishop dismissed

PROVO -- An Orem man's small claims lawsuit against his LDS bishop over unpaid mortgage payments was dismissed Friday when he failed to show up in court.

Sherwin Koyle sued his bishop after learning that he was four months behind in mortgage payments that he believed were being paid by his bishop from the welfare fund of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

In his small claims suit, Koyle says his bishop had paid his mortgage for about a year, but failed to notify him when leaders of his ward stopped making the payments. Koyle was suing for about $3,000 that he claimed he had to borrow to get his home out of foreclosure.

Koyle asked the small claims court judge to continue his case until he could find an attorney to help him. However, the judge dismissed the case and said Koyle will have 10 days to appeal the decision.

https://www.deseret.com/2000/4/29/19...ewsline-briefs

Here's the 10th circuit case if you are really bored:

https://casetext.com/case/in-re-koyle-1

If you happen to know Sherm Koyle, send him my best with a middle finger emoji. I'm sure he has figured out ways to still be living in his house without paying the mortgage.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Holy cow. Bravo for your work on that case. What a nut.

[Non Sequitur]

One of my most satisfying accomplishments as a lawyer was getting a summary judgment ruling on a sovereign citizen in Orem who had basically spent 10+ years not paying his mortgage, and then filing a phony Bankruptcy or some other dilatory tactic for getting the foreclosure sale stayed. The process would always end with some repayment agreement and/or loan modification agreement, and the guy would make a single payment and then promptly stop paying, starting the process all over again. By the time I was on the file, the guy was claiming that 6 years had run from the notice of default, and thus the statute of limitations had expired and the house was his, free and clear. Yeah, guy, thats how it works. I spent a lot of time briefing the issues and laying out the entire story, from beginning to end. And that the guy was basically arguing that a bankruptcy repayment plan that he agreed to in open court but refused to sign thereafter and never made a payment on, created a loophole that kept the statute running on the prior-recorded notice of default. It became clear that he was down a sovereign citizen wormhole online and believed this loophole was his way to a free house.

It took me 9 months of briefing and other motion work, but by the time I was done, the court had a very clear picture of just how many times this guy had done this over the prior decade. Based on the briefing, Federal Court in Utah granted summary judgment and issued a pre-emptory order that the next foreclosure sale should not be stayed for any reason. The guy appealed to the 10th circuit, and the ruling was upheld. The best part about it being upheld is that the court didn't address any of his appellate arguments, because they were all new arguments and not made at the district court level (where the guy represented himself the entire time.) If you go online and read the 10th circuit ruling, it is basically my MSJ copied, verbatim, until it gets to the appellate analysis.

I was at that firm for 9 months, and hated pretty much every minute of it, other than the time I spent on this case. It was the first case I worked on (the complaint and motion to stay foreclosure sale literally came in on my first morning on the job) and the SJ hearing and order were the last things I did at that firm.

Also, the guy was such a POS, he filed a complaint against the church for not paying his mortgage for him:



Here's the 10th circuit case if you are really bored:

https://casetext.com/case/in-re-koyle-1

If you happen to know Sherm Koyle, send him my best with a middle finger emoji. I'm sure he has figured out ways to still be living in his house without paying the mortgage.

I'm not condoning what the guy did, but the fact that he kept the thing going for 10 years and kept you engaged for 9 months is kind of amazing. Was he representing himself, and why did the bank keep making repayment arrangements with him?

[Donuthole]

I'm not condoning what the guy did, but the fact that he kept the thing going for 10 years and kept you engaged for 9 months is kind of amazing. Was he representing himself, and why did the bank keep making repayment arrangements with him?

IIRC, he did all his own legal filings, but whenever a court appearance was required, he would hire out some attorney piece-meal to come in and argue in court. 9 months sounds like a long time, but that is a blink of an eye in the legal world (basically that was how long it took for me to get a hearing in federal court). He was able to keep it going for 10+ years, because this was basically his part-time job. He probably would have been better off getting a $15/hr side job and using that to pay his mortgage.

I think his grift was made possible for so long because the owners of these securities sell them and then the new owners hire different lawyers, etc. So the bank entering into a repayment agreement with this guy is doing it for the first time for them, and the bank's lawyer is eager just to get some resolution and get the file off his/her plate. I was the first guy on the case who didn't just address the issue immediately at hand, but decided that connecting all 10 years of dots for the court would help not just win the instant matter, but convince the court to take some action to stop it from happening again. Most of these sovereign citizen types can get away with this nonsense because, even though they lack legal standing on pretty much any of their positions, they keep running into people who are happy to punt the issue to the next person. At the hearing on our motion, the attorney asked me about a loan modification deal, etc. and said his client would be interested. I took that back to my client and said 'here's what they want, but here's how it will play out, so we should just press forward and put this thing to bed." It would have been very easy for me to say "Let's offer the guy a loan modification" and they would have for sure done it.

[Donuthole]

It was an important step for me getting to where I am. I hated it, but I don't regret it.