My 9/11 concerns

[creekster]

First off, Creekster, please stop ASSERTING that I have ASSERTED anything. I haven't. I haven't made an argument this entire time. I've explained my way of thinking on a few things, but you need to let go of thinking I'm arguing something here because I'm not. I've simply requested that you guys show me what you know that I apparently do not.

I can easily spell out exactly what the alternate theory is. I actually can't believe you've missed it so far. Remember, I am not arguing these points. I am simply laying out the nature of the theory, per your request. So take it easy.

1. The planes were a cover for the explosives that were planted inside the building.

2. Had the government admitted that explosives brought down the building rather than the planes, they would have had to explain how the terrorists were able to gain such incredible access to be able to do so, despite supposedly a couple weeks prior to 9/11 having evacuated the building for a number of hours, and flooding it with federal personnel for undisclosed reasons.

3. The belief is that 9/11 was a false flag attack, intended to gain public support for a war that would be financed by the international bankers, that otherwise would not have received the necessary public support to go forward. It wouldn't be the first time the C.I.A. was caught doing a false flag operation. Some documents from the 1960s are already a matter of public record which shows that they were doing similar things then, even sinking a U.S. vessel and blaming another military in order to justify further military ops against that same military. False flags are commonplace in the C.I.A. according to this theory.

That's the theory. Now, you add to it the many firefighters that claim they heard explosions "pop, pop, popping" down the first tower right before it fell, the matter found at ground zero that matches detonation charges, and a slew of other odd findings, and you have yourself a genuine conspiracy theory.

Now I repeat: I am not arguing this. You simply asked me to outline it for you. Does that work or did you want something else?

This is a little better.

Lets put aside motive and shadows for a minute. One thign we can all agree on is that three giant buildings fell down. They were tangible objects that collapsed. I wanted to know how they collapsed, according to you. Now you have almost stated, but not quite, lacking the courage of your theory, apparently, that the collpase resulted from pre-planted explosives.

Is this true? Your alternate version requires the placment of tons of explosives in three buildings wired to detonate just after planes have collided with the buildings. Is that right?

[Coach McGuirk]

I would understand your resistance to number one as "a finance guy." These "international bankers" aren't guys you have taken to lunch to get an internship at Bank of America over the summer. These are THE banking families, from what I've heard. J.P. Morgan, Rockefeller, Rothschild, Carnegie, the Royal Family, etc. These families have been heading up the English banking cartel since the 1600's. They don't just STOP banking. They don't just STOP owning half the civilized world. They're not some chump BYU finance major walking around your neighborhood looking at sweet real estate deals. As for evidence I have for them, that could be a WHOLE new thread, bro.

But right now we're just trying to see if I could be convinced that planes really brought down the towers. I'm seeing some good evidence for it. I know that just because war is profitable to these guys, and just because they did USE 9/11 as justification for the Iraq war, that doesn't prove that they actually planned or caused 9/11. Just because I benefit from something doesn't mean that I caused it. I may benefit at a race track when the horse in front of mine trips and falls, but that doesn't mean I tripped him.

You're gone. No one here can help.

[Indy Coug]

This is a little better.

Lets put aside motive and shadows for aminute. One thign we can all agree on is that three giant building fell down. They were tangible objects that collapsed. I wanted to know how they collapsed, according to you. Now you have almost stated, but not quite, lacking the courage of your theory, apparently, that the collpase resulted from pre-planted explosives.

Is this true? Your alternate version requires the placment of tones of explosives in three buildings wired to detonate just after planes have collided with the buildings. Is that right?

I would like to thank whoever it was that graciously waited for most everyone else to clear out of the area in and around WTC7 before bringing it down -- unlike the itchy trigger-finger bastard that jumped the gun with WTC1 and WTC2. He's just one of the many unforgotten heroes in our nation.

[taekwondave]

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[Jeff Lebowski]

There certainly are some fools in a group like that, but to say they are ALL bottom-of-the-classers is a bit disingenuous.

You are nitpicking. You know what I meant.

Steven E. Jones was one of THE top electrical chemists in nation prior to the whole cold fusion flap,

No he wasn't.

... and he has bought into the conspiracy thing hook, line, and sinker. Otherwise smart people are fully capable of being deceived.

Have you read his papers? You should check out his original paper that he couldn't get published in anything but a Marxist rag (leading him to self-publish it on the internet). It was nonsense. They guy hasn't a clue about structural engineering.

Yes, how a guy with a Ph.D. from Stanford could fall so completely off the wagon is puzzling. It also explains why the guy is such a god in the 9/11 truther movement. You rarely get someone with that level of education to go bonkers like that.

[FMCoug]

This thread makes me feel like Billy Madison's teacher:

Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Is there a way to block specific threads from search bots? I don't want the tin foil hat crowd showing up at CUF in droves.

[taekwondave]

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[Jeff Lebowski]

Okay, great. And the rest of them signed a petition that they've looked over the evidence and swear the story is legit? Or the rest of them just accept what the news tells them and sees no reason to look any further? If you have the site of those 1,000,000 architects and engineers who swear by the official story I'd love to have it.

OMG! No such site or petition exists?

Holy shit, you might be on to something.

[taekwondave]

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[BigFatMeanie]

I would understand your resistance to number one as "a finance guy." These "international bankers" aren't guys you have taken to lunch to get an internship at Bank of America over the summer. These are THE banking families, from what I've heard. J.P. Morgan, Rockefeller, Rothschild, Carnegie, the Royal Family, etc. These families have been heading up the English banking cartel since the 1600's. They don't just STOP banking. They don't just STOP owning half the civilized world. They're not some chump BYU finance major walking around your neighborhood looking at sweet real estate deals. As for evidence I have for them, that could be a WHOLE new thread, bro.

But right now we're just trying to see if I could be convinced that planes really brought down the towers. I'm seeing some good evidence for it. I know that just because war is profitable to these guys, and just because they did USE 9/11 as justification for the Iraq war, that doesn't prove that they actually planned or caused 9/11. Just because I benefit from something doesn't mean that I caused it. I may benefit at a race track when the horse in front of mine trips and falls, but that doesn't mean I tripped him.

Dave,

Gallup has found what could be over 5 million people in the USA who think the sun revolves around the earth. Hmm, they just may be on to something. I think I'll believe them. There is strength in numbers, after all.

Now, can you please convince me that the earth revolves around the sun? I'm willing to be convinced but you'll have to do a good job of it. You'll need to present some strong evidence because my own eyes tell me that even though I'm completely stationary the sun still moves across the sky! What do you know that I don't know?

[taekwondave]

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[YOhio]

One last thing before I go to bed, guys.

I HATE my world view. It depresses the HELL out of me. I would LOVE to go back to the days when I thought the only battle that needed fighting in America was between the democrats and republicans. That the only thing I needed to do to change the world was get Mitt Romney, and not Ron Paul elected. I was good at that world view. I had control in that world view. I felt like an expert with that world view.

I watched corporate news all day at home, listened to conservative radio every time I was in the car, and just loved to twist everything some liberal said into a pretzel to somehow prove they were incompetent and that my "guy" or my "party" should win. That was FUN. It was the world that everyone around me understood. When I opened my mouth and talked about political issues, people knew what the hell I was talking about. I liked when I thought Ron Paul was a skeezy little troll-man who was completely out of touch with what America was really dealing with and was better off back in the hole where he came from, instead of maybe the LAST guy on earth who actually knows what it means to be a real conservative, and yet even feeling forced to doubt HIM because who knows with these multi-trillion dollar interests that float around the world, gobbling up entire governments everywhere they go.

I never thought I'd actually LIKE the guy. Ugh. I laughed my ass off when Fox News kept cutting him off in favor of Romney, Guliani, and that guy who can't lift his arms above his head (I said that all the time when Romney was running against McCain, haha. I thought I was so clever.)

Now I think the whole damn world is owned by international bankers who hide behind their damn puppet politicians and their damn make-believe governments. I think they own every major media outlet and play our whole country like keys on a piano and use our military as their own little bulldozer to squash any country that doesn't agree to their terms, gaining our support by getting their four media "witnesses" who supposedly hate each other and disagree on every political front to magically agree on something. (Lybia anyone?)

You think I LIKE that world view? Good GOD, save me if you can. What kind of LIFE is that? Who wants to believe that even if it were true? Who wants to feel so insignificant? I sure as hell don't. I got an ego, dammit. So if you can drag me back to where I came from, don't think I'll resent you for it, no. If someone can actually get me to believe that the world works the way Fox News says it does again, I will love you forever.

Now good night.

This sounds like an awful burden to carry.

[creekster]

I think that's how it goes, yeah.

And the evidence is the same stuff that guys lkike stephen jones have been trotting out the last few years?

[Jeff Lebowski]

Dave,

Gallup has found what could be over 5 million people in the USA who think the sun revolves around the earth. Hmm, they just may be on to something. I think I'll believe them. There is strength in numbers, after all.

Now, can you please convince me that the earth revolves around the sun? I'm willing to be convinced but you'll have to do a good job of it. You'll need to present some strong evidence because my own eyes tell me that even though I'm completely stationary the sun still moves across the sky! What do you know that I don't know?

BFM, are you friends with these 5 million people and have you personally listened to their explanation? Can you point me to a website where the other 295M people in the USA have signed a petition verifying their belief that the sun revolves around the earth?

[taekwondave]

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