I love Utah politics

[fusnik]

Believing McMullen is an unserious candidate means I don't see GOP populism as a threat?

The dem party is doing the only rational thing seen in Utah federal politics in the last 40 years. They know they have zero chance with any D candidate regardless where they sit on the left, so they are rallying around a centrist with a pro democracy platform that received thousands of votes in a presidential election 5 years ago and thus are increasing their odds to maybe 10-15%. In the process they might get a dude that will vote with them maybe 40% of the time.

It’s literal the difference between the parties and has been a consistent theme on the left since Bush. Regardless what fox and NR and Rand Paul say the left consistently props up center left candidates in a majority of winnable races and have pushed the crazies like AOCs in deep blue districts to the side.

[Applejack]

I think McMuffin is a lightweight; didn’t half of this board vote for him FOR PRESIDENT?!

That being said, I would vote for him in a heartbeat over that lying, culture warrior, coup enabling, embarrassment to the great state of Utah, Mike Lee.

[USUC]

The dem party is doing the only rational thing seen in Utah federal politics in the last 40 years. They know they have zero chance with any D candidate regardless where they sit on the left, so they are rallying around a centrist with a pro democracy platform that received thousands of votes in a presidential election 5 years ago and thus are increasing their odds to maybe 10-15%. In the process they might get a dude that will vote with them maybe 40% of the time.

It’s literal the difference between the parties and has been a consistent theme on the left since Bush. Regardless what fox and NR and Rand Paul say the left consistently props up center left candidates in a majority of winnable races and have pushed the crazies like AOCs in deep blue districts to the side.

it's not that I think the strategy in and of itself is a bad one, it's a bad candidate to get behind. if they were truly serious about this type of strategy, they would have been working on recruiting someone more serious a year ago.

I get everyone here thinks "at least McMullen is better than Lee," and for a bunch of squishy moderates that might work. But how will this work in getting at the Utah GOP base? Yes the texts are bad, but he ultimately voted to uphold the election. Banging on about the texts ain't going to work. The "against candidate" doesn't get people excited. What are his conservative bonafides? He has a history of adjusting his stated positions to bolster his anti Trump cred.

But hey, let's see how it plays out. Let's see if he can turn into a high energy candidate that gets the base excited.

[fusnik]

it's not that I think the strategy in and of itself is a bad one, it's a bad candidate to get behind. if they were truly serious about this type of strategy, they would have been working on recruiting someone more serious a year ago.

I get everyone here thinks "at least McMullen is better than Lee," and for a bunch of squishy moderates that might work. But how will this work in getting at the Utah GOP base? Yes the texts are bad, but he ultimately voted to uphold the election. Banging on about the texts ain't going to work. The "against candidate" doesn't get people excited. What are his conservative bonafides? He has a history of adjusting his stated positions to bolster his anti Trump cred.

But hey, let's see how it plays out. Let's see if he can turn into a high energy candidate that gets the base excited.

Banging on about the texts? He was a key player, at least communications wise, in an attempted coup, any other time, any other political party and he would have been forced to resign.

At the end of the day it’s Utah, McM is the closest the dems are going to get to a winnable senate candidate, lest you forget, Ben McAdams was ousted by a Qanon believer.

[Applejack]

it's not that I think the strategy in and of itself is a bad one, it's a bad candidate to get behind. if they were truly serious about this type of strategy, they would have been working on recruiting someone more serious a year ago.

I get everyone here thinks "at least McMullen is better than Lee," and for a bunch of squishy moderates that might work. But how will this work in getting at the Utah GOP base? Yes the texts are bad, but he ultimately voted to uphold the election. Banging on about the texts ain't going to work. The "against candidate" doesn't get people excited. What are his conservative bonafides? He has a history of adjusting his stated positions to bolster his anti Trump cred.

But hey, let's see how it plays out. Let's see if he can turn into a high energy candidate that gets the base excited.

Are you arguing that this coup enabler will win because he has an R next to his name? I AGREE! That’s what is sad: not the democrats failure to beat the bushes for a better candidate; the sad part is that someone who wanted to submit alternate delegates (ie, subverting the will of the voters and doing the opposite) is basically a shoe-in in Utah because he is an (R).

shame on the Republican Party for supporting this dangerous nonsense.

[USUC]

Banging on about the texts? He was a key player, at least communications wise, in an attempted coup, any other time, any other political party and he would have been forced to resign.

At the end of the day it’s Utah, McM is the closest the dems are going to get to a winnable senate candidate, lest you forget, Ben McAdams was ousted by a Qanon believer.

You are partisan on the left. Of course the texts are a big deal to you. But to the partisans on the right, most damage that the texts could have are canceled because of his vote to uphold.

But you are right, this is a populist moment and there is little that can be done until the moment fizzles out.

[USUC]

shame on the Republican Party for supporting this dangerous nonsense.

100%. American politics is dominated by unseriousness right now.

[Applejack]

100%. American politics is dominated by unseriousness right now.

Mike “tell me what to say” Lee is not unserious. Supporting a coup attempt should be disqualifying. To say nothing of his judicial choices (recommending Sidney Powell?????)

[Non Sequitur]

You are partisan on the left. Of course the texts are a big deal to you. But to the partisans on the right, most damage that the texts could have are canceled because of his vote to uphold.

But you are right, this is a populist moment and there is little that can be done until the moment fizzles out.

Hey Sherlock, there is actually a lot that can be done, not the least of which is to feign interest in holding people accountable. You'd make a terrific rape counselor, telling the victim that she can't undo the past and she just needs to wait until the moment fizzles out.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Blows my mind that there are so many people for whom working behind the scenes to overturn the results of a free and fair election is not an immediate deal-killer.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I have a friend who was a state delegate and posted updates from yesterday's convention. A few highlights:

- Lt. Gov Deirdre Henderson was roundly booed by many of the delegates and you couldn't hear much of her speech.
- At least one speaker said he was absolutely sure the 2020 election was stolen from Trump
- The guy giving the opening prayer ended with "In the name of Jesus Christ, let's go Brandon"

[Jeff Lebowski]

From a conservative with actual principles. Excellent description of Mike Lee's sad trajectory. As the McCarthy tapes illustrate, these folks know good and damn well that Trump is rotten, but they look at the which way the wind is blowing with the party base, and sold their souls to stay in favor with the party boss.

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[USUC]

Hey Sherlock, there is actually a lot that can be done, not the least of which is to feign interest in holding people accountable. You'd make a terrific rape counselor, telling the victim that she can't undo the past and she just needs to wait until the moment fizzles out.

Your analogy here needs some work.

Forgive me if I "feign interest" in holding politicians accountable when no politician has been held to account over all sorts of despicable stuff over the past 20 years. Life as a small governemnt classical liberal has been nothing but a gut punch as corruption, economic illiteracy, and expansion of the administrative state has fueled the current culture war and incompetence of the elite class. I'm not going to get excited about the epitome of elite arrogance in McMullen even if it comes at the expense of Lee's descent into idiocracy. Having a largely irrelevant political philosophy provides me the luxury of not getting caught up in wishcasting against political enemies.

This board is made up of intellectually inclined moderates who are relatively financially well off and place a person's motivation and strict morality above all other concerns. We demand penence and retribution. I count myself among this group (although wealth has thus far eluded me). But when it comes to elections, they are decided by the material concerns of the great unwashed. Inflation is destroying people's security. It cannot be downplayed. Biden has some bad luck when it comes to this as a lot of it is out of his control. But Dem spending and cavalier attitude towards taking it seriously has undoubtedly made this worse for Americans in ways it hasn't in other western countries. Bureaucratic overreach and arrogance has botched the pandemic and the response. Again, a lot of this isn't necessarily within their control and they were making the choices they felt were right at the time. But looking back there were a lot of mistakes made.

But the reality is these two things alone will doom Democrats. This senate race in Utah is within this same political milieu. I'm not making any moral judgements on you all for being excited about this. I'm just making the observation that I doubt it will work and I think McMullen is a terrible candidate. And the black and white "with us or against us" frame is silly here.

*Edited to back track on allegations of the wealth of others. A mistake.

[Copelius]

Interesting. I have been on the Mike Lee mailing list for years. Every single email is some dumbed-down culture war statement or "save us from Pelosi and the evil democrats".

Help me out here. What are the substantial differences in these two websites in terms of "specific actions"?

https://evanmcmullin.com/priorities/
https://www.lee.senate.gov/issues

And finally, Lee gets caught lying about his involvement in the run-up to the January 6th insurrection and your only "quibble with his integrity" is his broken promise on term limits?

You forget that I'm not a Mike Lee fan. I voted for Bridgewater as a state delegate in 2010 and considered Lee to be a bad choice then as well as now. But McMullin is not in my mind a viable alternative.

I never said I would vote for Lee. In fact I believe I have not registered a vote for him in any election primary or general.

My issue with his failure to live up to his self imposed term limit was just one of the reasons I don't support him, which was probably inartfully expressed. The main point of my post was that I consider McMullin a non serious candidate and don't respect the Democrats for supporting someone who is not a member of their party.

[Donuthole]

You forget that I'm not a Mike Lee fan. I voted for Bridgewater as a state delegate in 2010 and considered Lee to be a bad choice then as well as now. But McMullin is not in my mind a viable alternative.

I never said I would vote for Lee. In fact I believe I have not registered a vote for him in any election primary or general.

My issue with his failure to live up to his self imposed term limit was just one of the reasons I don't support him, which was probably inartfully expressed. The main point of my post was that I consider McMullin a non serious candidate and don't respect the Democrats for supporting someone who is not a member of their party.

This sentiment strikes me as absolutely crazy. I am all for a party recognizing that the goal is to get your person elected, but the secondary goal is to make sure the worst person doesn’t get elected. Goal 1a is pretty much impossible for the Democrats in Utah. Kudos to them for acknowledging that and taking steps to accomplish goal 1b. Wish we saw that more in politics, quite frankly.