Elizabeth Smart testimony today

[cowboy]

I could be wrong, but I don't think Woot was taking a swipe at the Mormon Church as much as he was Mormons in general.

Perhaps, but that's not what he said.

The last page of this thread is sure demonstrative. Good job, Mormonism.

[Non Sequitur]

Yes! Mormons are people too, after all.

In a fashion.

[woot]

Yes, I was commenting on all the sick, hypocritical fucks in this thread who clearly do not actually believe much of what they profess. I was pointing out the failure of Mormonism in getting any of you to be decent human beings.

I imagine that if any of you actually believed in an eternal afterlife you wouldn't feel the need to gleefully hope for daily prison rape for this guy.

[scottie]

Yes, I was commenting on all the sick, hypocritical fucks in this thread who clearly do not actually believe much of what they profess. I was pointing out the failure of Mormonism in getting any of you to be decent human beings.

I imagine that if any of you actually believed in an eternal afterlife you wouldn't feel the need to gleefully hope for daily prison rape for this guy.

I get what you're trying to say woot, but that's over the top.

[smokymountainrain]

Yes, I was commenting on all the sick, hypocritical fucks in this thread who clearly do not actually believe much of what they profess. I was pointing out the failure of Mormonism in getting any of you to be decent human beings.

I imagine that if any of you actually believed in an eternal afterlife you wouldn't feel the need to gleefully hope for daily prison rape for this guy.

Perhaps you could explain how the attitudes of those who commented in this thread - those "fucks" to whom you refer - is due to failure of Mormonism. Could it not be the failure of their parents? Their schools? Their religion prior to conversion into the Mormon faith?

After all, I couldn't disagree more with some of these comments, yet my parents were active Mormons and I've been an active Mormon my entire life. Was I simply one of the lucky ones who survived regardless of the failures of my religion?

[woot]

Perhaps you could explain how the attitudes of those who commented in this thread - those "fucks" to whom you refer - is due to failure of Mormonism. Could it not be the failure of their parents? Their schools? Their religion prior to conversion into the Mormon faith?

After all, I couldn't disagree more with some of these comments, yet my parents were active Mormons and I've been an active Mormon my entire life. Was I simply one of the lucky ones who survived regardless of the failures of my religion?

Had any of them succeeded, we wouldn't be seeing such childish hatred, so it seems clear that they all failed in this regard. I chose to pick on their religion since it's the one that tries explicitly to get people to behave in the opposite way, whereas parents and schools don't necessarily do the same.

[smokymountainrain]

Had any of them succeeded, we wouldn't be seeing such childish hatred, so it seems clear that they all failed in this regard. I chose to pick on their religion since it's the one that tries explicitly to get people to behave in the opposite way, whereas parents and schools don't necessarily do the same.

It seems to me you've made a case that their attitudes are most certainly not the fault of Mormonism. If Mormonism is teaching them "explicitly" to behave the opposite way, isn't it their faul that they've chosen disregard or ignore those teachings?

[old_gregg]

Had any of them succeeded, we wouldn't be seeing such childish hatred, so it seems clear that they all failed in this regard. I chose to pick on their religion since it's the one that tries explicitly to get people to behave in the opposite way, whereas parents and schools don't necessarily do the same.

Childish hatred? He raped a little girl who hadn't started her period for nine months.

[woot]

It seems to me you've made a case that their attitudes are most certainly not the fault of Mormonism. If Mormonism is teaching them "explicitly" to behave the opposite way, isn't it their faul that they've chosen disregard or ignore those teachings?

Yes. Mormonism has failed to change their behavior. They either don't actually believe it or just don't think about it enough to have it affect their behavior.

[old_gregg]

Yes. Mormonism has failed to change their behavior. They either don't actually believe it or just don't think about it enough to have it affect their behavior.

...so it's not a failure of Mormonism, but a failure of individuals. This is a weird thing to be raging about, woot.

[woot]

Childish hatred? He raped a little girl who hadn't started her period for nine months.

I know you're just trying to deflect the attention here, but it doesn't matter what he did. He'll be punished by the state, and more importantly, he'll be punished for all eternity (not really, but hey you supposedly believe it). Do you suppose that acting a monster in response to a monster is acceptable behavior?

[woot]

...so it's not a failure of Mormonism, but a failure of individuals. This is a weird thing to be raging about, woot.

Yes, in the same way that everything is about individuals. Inasmuch as Mormonism aims to make you into a decent person, it has failed. I love the irony of you telling me it's weird to point this out, but presumably publicly wishing for a man to get raped every day for life is just fine.

[smokymountainrain]

Yes. Mormonism has failed to change their behavior. They either don't actually believe it or just don't think about it enough to have it affect their behavior.

We may have to agree to disagree on this point as we are clearly not on the same page. You said Mormonism teaches people to "explicitly" behave in the opposite way. What more can Mormonism do after that? Should church leaders stick a gun to the heads of the followers and force them to live the Gospel? Should they chain the members to the pews and never let them leave the buildings?

It seem to me Mormonism has taught correct principles and if some people choose not to believe it or not think about it enough, it is on those people - by the way they've chosen to exercise their agency.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Nobody does righteous indignation quite like woot.

[woot]

We may have to agree to disagree on this point as we are clearly not on the same page. You said Mormonism teaches people to "explicitly" behave in the opposite way. What more can Mormonism do after that? Should church leaders stick a gun to the heads of the followers and force them to live the Gospel? Should they chain the members to the pews and never let them leave the buildings?

It seem to me Mormonism has taught correct principles and if some people choose not to believe it or not think about it enough, it is on those people - by the way they've chosen to exercise their agency.

Agreed. I've already made clear what my point is.