Elizabeth Smart testimony today

[woot]

Nobody does righteous indignation quite like woot.

And you can go to hell if you feel like my indignation is more comment worthy than the sick fucks I was responding to.

[old_gregg]

And you can go to hell if you feel like my indignation is more comment worthy than the sick fucks I was responding to.

LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE!!

[Katy Lied]

I'm late to this argument. Was Woot claiming that no one of the catholic or protestant or islamic persuasion was wishing jail rape upon BDM?

(BTW, I dont wish it upon him.)

[PaloAltoCougar]

Yes, in the same way that everything is about individuals. Inasmuch as Mormonism aims to make you into a decent person, it has failed. I love the irony of you telling me it's weird to point this out, but presumably publicly wishing for a man to get raped every day for life is just fine.

Woot, I think you're overswinging here. It's not all that unusual, or very troubling to me, for some to express outrage, to the point of wishing unspeakable harm, with respect to BDM's horrific actions. I wouldn't do so, but I'm certain that those who did would not actually implement such harm, even indirectly, if they were given the power to do so. I seriously doubt anyone like LA Ute would approve, much less direct, anyone to prison rape BDM. It's simply a manner of venting. People do that. In fact, their faith is what makes such "venters" stop short of implementing into action the rather primal, and ultimately inapt, response to horrific acts.

That said, I'm curious what mentor, organization or family member you would blame for causing you to characterize some very good people as sick or hypocritical fucks. I'll assume you're just venting.

[woot]

I'm late to this argument. Was Woot claiming that no one of the catholic or protestant or islamic persuasion was wishing jail rape upon BDM?

(BTW, I dont wish it upon him.)

No, he wasn't.

[LA Ute]

Although this is totally unnecessary, I'll just add for the record that I believe Mr. Mitchell will someday receive the full measure of eternal justice and mercy that he deserves. Although I don't feel any pity for Mitchhell, I really don't advocate any kind of vigilante or prison violence. Excuse me for venting.

(By the way, on learning of Mitchell's conviction my Jewish and Catholic, male and female colleagues here where I work vented in pretty much the same way. Maybe it's a Juedo-Christian thing. I haven't had time to ask my Muslim colleagues.)

Isn't it time to start in on Joseph Smith, polygamy, polyandry, and the priesthood ban?

[creekster]

And you can go to hell if you feel like my indignation is more comment worthy than the sick fucks I was responding to.

SO I am rather confused here, woot. Is your unseemly language, rush to condemnation of persons you don't even know and strident unpleasantness a result of your background with Mormonism or your life after having left it?

[Non Sequitur]

Childish hatred? He raped a little girl who hadn't started her period for nine months.

Yeah, it is childish. I have a hard time imagining any of the Brethern -- publicly or privately -- calling for BDM to be raped and murdered in prison. And it's not because they're not appalled at what happened to Elizabeth smart.

[woot]

Woot, I think you're overswinging here. It's not all that unusual, or very troubling to me, for some to express outrage, to the point of wishing unspeakable harm, with respect to BDM's horrific actions. I wouldn't do so, but I'm certain that those who did would not actually implement such harm, even indirectly, if they were given the power to do so. I seriously doubt anyone like LA Ute would approve, much less direct, anyone to prison rape BDM. It's simply a manner of venting. People do that. In fact, their faith is what makes such "venters" stop short of implementing into action the rather primal, and ultimately inapt, response to horrific acts.

That said, I'm curious what mentor, organization or family member you would blame for causing you to characterize some very good people as sick or hypocritical fucks. I'll assume you're just venting.

Does anyone actually believe this? Is faith really what prevents you from torturing people?

Yes, I'm venting. It's just really sad when I see members of the one true church thinking in such a repugnant fashion.

And again, I haven't said anything about other religions. I'm not sure why anyone would think "we're no worse than all the false religions!" is a good argument. If Mormonism doesn't make people better then what is it for?

[LA Ute]

Yeah, it is childish. I have a hard time imagining any of the Brethern -- publicly or privately -- calling for BDM to be raped and murdered in prison. And it's not because they're not appalled at what happened to Elizabeth smart.

I haven't read the thread. Have people called for that here? I said this:

Someone suggested that his being raped daily for a full year might be an appropriate outcome, but I won't belabor that idea.

I don't remember who I heard that suggestion from. It might have been here but I don't think so.

[Non Sequitur]

If Mormonism doesn't make people better then what is it for?

How do you know it doesn't make them better? Maybe the people that are failing would be failing worse without Mormonism. I don't believe in truthiness of Mormonism, but I would never be arrogant enough to say that it doesn't help people.

[woot]

How do you know it doesn't make them better? Maybe the people that are failing would be failing worse without Mormonism. I don't believe in truthiness of Mormonism, but I would never be arrogant enough to say that it doesn't help people.

Well, I actually would say that it's very much debatable whether Mormonism is a net benefit to the world, but that's not the argument I was making in this case. I was responding to the "catholics and muslims are just as bad as us" line of reasoning.

[Non Sequitur]

I haven't read the thread. Have people called for that here?

There were a few people several pages back that described what they hoped would happen to him in prison. It was by no means a majority, and I don't believe it any way represents the sentiments of most people on this board, or most people in the Church for that matter.

[PaloAltoCougar]

...their faith is what makes such "venters" stop short of implementing into action the rather primal, and ultimately inapt, response to horrific acts.

Does anyone actually believe this? Is faith really what prevents you from torturing people?

Honestly, I'm very surprised you think my statement strains credulity. Perhaps we have a different take on faith. I use faith in a much broader context--one's belief in the transcendent, the ability of people to rise above their current state, the hope for a better world. Without that kind of faith, then yes, I say we take BDM out back and beat the shit out of him. Indeed, that's the immediate reaction of most humans, I think. But ultimately, one's faith in the transcendent (be it of the LDS variety or a more humanistic type), brings one back to a reasoned and principled approach.

I don't get why you need to use Mormonism as your foil here, when all you're witnessing is people venting, using words they ultimately don't mean. Their faith, and yours, will ultimately get past, and rise above, the heat of the moment.

[woot]

Honestly, I'm very surprised you think my statement strains credulity. Perhaps we have a different take on faith. I use faith in a much broader context--one's belief in the transcendent, the ability of people to rise above their current state, the hope for a better world. Without that kind of faith, then yes, I say we take BDM out back and beat the shit out of him. Indeed, that's the immediate reaction of most humans, I think. But ultimately, one's faith in the transcendent (be it of the LDS variety or a more humanistic type), brings one back to a reasoned and principled approach.

I don't get why you need to use Mormonism as your foil here, when all you're witnessing is people venting, using words they ultimately don't mean. Their faith, and yours, will ultimately get past, and rise above, the heat of the moment.

It seems we define "faith" quite differently. I define it as belief without evidence, or belief in supernatural forces in general. To equate hope for a better world, or a basic desire to be nice to other people, with faith seems like a huge stretch to me.