Elizabeth Smart testimony today

[Donuthole]

The prof. wasn't the one who started the conversation, but he allowed it to happen. And I honeslty believe that is a really good thing. Debating points of view are healthy and allow folks to challenge their own set of beliefs.

And if anyone knows me...I am a BYU honk. So I have no hate for the school.

I was just kinda caught off guard that some folks think that way. It shouldn't have shocked me, but it did.

While it is a bit disheartening, I don't think it is surprising that there are some folks who would believe that way.

I think the problem most are having with your daughter's story is the representation that a majority of the class felt that way. That is just too unbelievable, IMO. As previously stated by someone, it is usually the outliers who are the most vocal. This was my experience at both Weber State and BYU.

I'm not calling you or your daughter a liar, Tick. It's totally natural to talk in "most" and "the majority" without really thinking "most or majority = at least 51%". I do it all the time. We all do. But on something like this, I think it's worth pointing out the unlikeliness that most of the class felt that way. In reality, it was probably a few of the vocal minority who either really believe that (cringe) or who are just trolling to create discussion.

[mUUser]

My daughter has been texting me all morning about her Psych class at BYU and the open debate they were having about the E.Smart case.

A majority of the class felt that:

1. She is going to be held accountable because she chose to drink alcohol. According to her own testimony she knew what she was doing and she is going to have to answer to God for breaking the WoW.

2. She should have defended herself and not allowed herself to be raped. By allowing it to happen for 9 months, it likens to consent.

I think I'm gonna be sick.

[marsupial]

It reminds me of some survey of Mormon youth I remember hearing about where most of them ranked breaking the WOW higher than breaking the law of chastity. But really, in the great scheme of LDS sins, how big of a deal is drinking? Would an isolated drinking incident delay a mission? It's not something you'd have to confess to the bishop, right? Just curious.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

There really isn't too much in the way of privacy laws as far as it relates to what newspaper can report and what it chooses not to report. Most newspapers choose not to report on the identification of a rape victim and they do it because of the newspaper's policy.

I haven't read the full transcript from E. Smart's testimony. For her sake, I wish they didn't publish it. The reason I feel this way is illustrated by the Freshman Psych Class talking about her ingesting alcohol so as to dull the mental and emotional pain she was going to have to experience. It seems like to me that when E. Smart made a media appearance in the several years after being found, the immediate thought was "this is the girl that was kidnapped and miraculously found after 9 months." To the extent that people are now discussing her worst experiences, I feel as if now the immediate thought is "this is the girl that had to go through _______, and _______, how on earth is she now coping?" Basically, I think it's difficult to get those details out of your head and I think it would have been better if people were oblivious to the details when they see her. Undoubtedly, everyone knew that bad things happened, but when the details are revealed, an image is made and it's hard not to think about those images when you see her.

I don't think Freshman Psych classes would be talking about this had the full testimony not been published.

[venkman]

The prof. wasn't the one who started the conversation, but he allowed it to happen. And I honeslty believe that is a really good thing. Debating points of view are healthy and allow folks to challenge their own set of beliefs.

And if anyone knows me...I am a BYU honk. So I have no hate for the school.

I was just kinda caught off guard that some folks think that way. It shouldn't have shocked me, but it did.

Having attended BYU, I'm not surprised. The BYU atmosphere, while great on many levels, can breed zealotry in some. Having said that, 99% of them will change their tune once they become parents.

[TripletDaddy]

She drank more than beer, so that's not relevant, and I don't personally care that she drank anything. She did attempt to fight off the rape so I don't get the complaint there, besides the fact that it was rape.

But I think the students have a point. Smart acknowledges that she was aware of what she was doing (at least some of the time) when she drank. Based on what I was taught growing up in the church (I don't happen to agree with this point anymore) her voluntary actions, regardless of the situation, would be sin.

You were taught poorly, at least with regards to what you are sharing here.

Good for you to have grown a bit.

[venkman]

It reminds me of some survey of Mormon youth I remember hearing about where most of them ranked breaking the WOW higher than breaking the law of chastity. But really, in the great scheme of LDS sins, how big of a deal is drinking? Would an isolated drinking incident delay a mission? It's not something you'd have to confess to the bishop, right? Just curious.

Q: What does the LDS girl do when beer is brought to a party?
A: Puts her clothes on and marches home.

[The_Tick]

While it is a bit disheartening, I don't think it is surprising that there are some folks who would believe that way.

I think the problem most are having with your daughter's story is the representation that a majority of the class felt that way. That is just too unbelievable, IMO. As previously stated by someone, it is usually the outliers who are the most vocal. This was my experience at both Weber State and BYU.

I'm not calling you or your daughter a liar, Tick. It's totally natural to talk in "most" and "the majority" without really thinking "most or majority = at least 51%". I do it all the time. We all do. But on something like this, I think it's worth pointing out the unlikeliness that most of the class felt that way. In reality, it was probably a few of the vocal minority who either really believe that (cringe) or who are just trolling to create discussion.

And I agree. Which is why I posted her text.

If 4 people speak out about it, and 3 go one way and 1 goes the other, the 3 would be the majority.

I am looking past her use of "most" and shaking my head at "any".

And you better not talk bad about my daughter...I would hate to beat you almost again in golf next year.

[Indy Coug]

And I agree. Which is why I posted her text.

If 4 people speak out about it, and 3 go one way and 1 goes the other, the 3 would be the majority.

I am looking past her use of "most" and shaking my head at "any".

And you better not talk bad about my daughter...I would hate to beat you almost again in golf next year.

It would have been cool to have been able to text/email my parents back when I was away at school.

[Donuthole]

And you better not talk bad about my daughter...I would hate to beat you almost again in golf next year.

Technically you beat me last time, right? Since I had to withdraw for personal reasons, and all.

[DrumNFeather]

What are the chances that this story gets made into a movie? What's Richard Dutcher doing these days? He could both act and direct.

[TripletDaddy]

What are the chances that this story gets made into a movie? What's Richard Dutcher doing these days? He could both act and direct.

it was already a made for TV movie.

[Pheidippides]

it was already a made for TV movie.

I don't want to see a movie about this. I had a hard enough time with the sexual violence in the GWTDT trilogy (especially the first movie - skipped that scene). And that is fake.

One caveat: if it makes E-Smart rich, I will buy a ticket. I am not opposes to her gaining pecuniary substance as a result of this. If she felt comfortable enough to write a book and get a handsome fee for it, I would be happy for her. Small recompense for a horrific experience. Maybe enough to pay her for the Nance Grace interview.

[dabrockster]

She mentioned on the witness stand today that Mitchell took away her free agency. I'm not on the jury or a judge of persons, but that's the way she felt in this case.

We have a winner. How can we or anyone else fault or condemn her for things she did as someone who was under such mental duress and a prisoner that was kept locked to a tree for 6 weeks. Her mental strength and desire to live and survive is one that I am amazed by. Like Tick said. I cannot see God judging her in any way for drinking..

[TripletDaddy]

I don't want to see a movie about this. I had a hard enough time with the sexual violence in the GWTDT trilogy (especially the first movie - skipped that scene). And that is fake.

One caveat: if it makes E-Smart rich, I will buy a ticket. I am not opposes to her gaining pecuniary substance as a result of this. If she felt comfortable enough to write a book and get a handsome fee for it, I would be happy for her. Small recompense for a horrific experience. Maybe enough to pay her for the Nance Grace interview.

The parents spoke at length about this. Their first thought was to avoid the pub but as rumors and stories swirled, they realized that they needed to control the story themselves. They did the TV movie and then the parents wrote a book. I think Father Smart's brother wrote a book, too...the one that was working for the Deseret News. I think, not sure.

I think they did a pretty good job to avoid the appearance of exploitation. E-Smart became active in political legislation and, as we saw in the clip of Nancy DisGrace (just made that up...is it original?), they also went out of their way to use her fame to promote causes, not to promote herself, the book, or the incident.

That being said, she was probably paid a decent sum for the movie rights. And you know...good for her. She deserves every cent and has carried herself well. If the money buys her a measure of peace and comfort in other areas of her present or future life, then have at it.