Elizabeth Smart testimony today

[Colly Wolly]

I'll get back to you when the extremists start killing and imprisoning the moderates and unbelievers.

Another cop out.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Why is that stance much different than the one Levin was championing through his reference to Camille Paglia? In essence..."hey women, come on....you are at least PARTIALLY responsible for the sexual behavior of men."

This is a different situation because E.Smart was physically detained and was under the threat (understood or real) of physical violence to herself of her family members.

The Camille Paglia mindset is correct but only to a very small extent. A person shouldn't show off her bewbs and then be upset when people see them. However the belief that a person 'deserves' to be physically assaulted based on physical appearance or dress is utterly preposterous.

And strange things can happen in zoobieville, but this doesn't pass the smell test. I can see her classmates discussing the issue that way, but there is no way the professor would espouse those ideas (unless strictly for the purpose of discussing the logic thereof).

[Indy Coug]

Another cop out.

A cop out from what? Treating exaggerations as if they aren't exaggerations? Send me an MRI from your orthopedist after all that knee-jerking.

[DapperDan]

As a parent I am bothered reading her testimony. I would hate for that to happen to my child and would feel helpless in figuring out how to help her heal/cope.

What bothers me even more...

My daughter has been texting me all morning about her Psych class at BYU and the open debate they were having about the E.Smart case.

A majority of the class felt that:

1. She is going to be held accountable because she chose to drink alcohol. According to her own testimony she knew what she was doing and she is going to have to answer to God for breaking the WoW.

2. She should have defended herself and not allowed herself to be raped. By allowing it to happen for 9 months, it likens to consent.


This bothers me on a few levels.

1. This is some F@cked up thinking.
2. This is my daughters dating pool.

As a parent I am impressed that Ms. Smart was smart enough to use the alcohol to get through the ordeal.

And I am all for doing anything you have to do to survive to continue to live.

Such a small world view. I am a little more worried about her education at the moment.

I know we feel for Ms. Smart and the terrible situation she was in, and I'm certainly not going to condemn her for anything, but to play devil's advocate what happened to free agency? If Ms. Smart voluntarily did something, why would she not be held accountable for it? We condemn others in bad situations for the voluntary decisions they make too. Why does Ms. Smart get a free pass?

[Colly Wolly]

A cop out from what? Treating exaggerations as if they aren't exaggerations? Send me an MRI from your orthopedist after all that knee-jerking.

So you're calling Tick's daugher a liar?

[Indy Coug]

So you're calling Tick's daugher a liar?

I'm saying that it's specious reasoning to conclude that what she related is the majority opinion on campus.

[Colly Wolly]

I know we feel for Ms. Smart and the terrible situation she was in, and I'm certainly not going to condemn her for anything, but to play devil's advocate what happened to free agency? If Ms. Smart voluntarily did something, why would she not be held accountable for it? We condemn others in bad situations for the voluntary decisions they make too. Why does Ms. Smart get a free pass?

First of all, drinking beer isn't a sin. It's plain as day in the D&C. Barley is for mild drinks. Now that we agree on that, are you saying she should have bit his Jacobs off, and because she didn't she's guilty?

[Colly Wolly]

I'm saying that it's specious reasoning to conclude that what she related is the majority opinion on campus.

Agree. Do you not agree that the minority opinion should be challenged and confronted?

[TripletDaddy]

I know we feel for Ms. Smart and the terrible situation she was in, and I'm certainly not going to condemn her for anything, but to play devil's advocate what happened to free agency? If Ms. Smart voluntarily did something, why would she not be held accountable for it? We condemn others in bad situations for the voluntary decisions they make too. Why does Ms. Smart get a free pass?

Because nothing she did was voluntary. She was under duress with the looming threat of death to her or her loved ones.

What a silly hypothetical.

[TheBYUGuy]

I know we feel for Ms. Smart and the terrible situation she was in, and I'm certainly not going to condemn her for anything, but to play devil's advocate what happened to free agency? If Ms. Smart voluntarily did something, why would she not be held accountable for it? We condemn others in bad situations for the voluntary decisions they make too. Why does Ms. Smart get a free pass?

She mentioned on the witness stand today that Mitchell took away her free agency. I'm not on the jury or a judge of persons, but that's the way she felt in this case.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Agree. Do you not agree that the minority opinion should be challenged and confronted?

You are amazingly certain of yourself, given a short third-hand description of a discussion.

[Indy Coug]

If an old lady can blow a burglar's face off with a sawed off shotgun, then a teenager should be able to ingest things that help her cope with the atrocities repeated committedly against her while in captivity.

Just because Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego took a very difficult moral stance under threat of death doesn't mean that what they did was the only acceptable course of action to the Lord.

EDIT: Nor that S, M & A's situation is even remotely applicable.

[Indy Coug]

Agree. Do you not agree that the minority opinion should be challenged and confronted?

Don't know. I have a pathological aversion to disagreeing with others.

[Colly Wolly]

You are amazingly certain of yourself, given a short third-hand description of a discussion.

I went to BYU. I know the kind of nut jobs that are there. If Tick's daughter is embellishing, then fine. I'll give her the benefit of the doubt based on what I observed and the freaks I interacted with. Hell, I was down there a couple months ago. People walking though THE MATH BUILDING singing How Great Thou Art. Jonestown.

[Colly Wolly]

Don't know. I have a pathological aversion to disagreeing with others.

Get back to me when you're ready to stand for something. tee hee!