ICE ICE baby - the immigration thread

[myboynoah]

lol

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[dabrockster]

I mean, what did they think was going to happen when they were enticing maga warriors with punisher truck decals off of their couches who were stoked about $50k?

I completely agree. The ICE agents who were newly hired need to be culled. Not get rid of all of them as I am sure there are good apples, but there should be some sort of FBI profile or full mental assessment done to continue as an agent. In addition to a complete review of who can and should be in the field.

[dabrockster]

It is easy to armchair QB the agents in the field without the knowledge or understanding the extreme level of stress they are under. They are human and this unattainable opinion they should be able to "handle it" is wrong. They should be held to a higher standard but as one of the quotes states..

Another branch of ICE, Enforcement and Removal Operations (ERO) “is being squeezed heavily [to serve on the streets against protestors],” the officer says, adding that “lots of guys [are] totally exhausted out there with a lot of pressure on them” to conduct non-immigration missions.

Should they be held accountable? Yes, but as I have always said. The efforts and purpose of certain groups co-mingled in these protests are wanting these types of results for their purpose. Sadly, many of you think there is no such thing. I disagree.. I look at this and look back to the time when Law Enforcement were equally villainized for the actions of a few and the number of shooting of officers, fake calls to then be killed, officers sitting in their car having a guy walk up and shot them point-blank in the head. ICE has seen the similar levels of attack (Snipers shooting at facilities, shooting of ICE agents, mobs backed by politicians at facilities.). Add the fact, we have new agents who have no business even being an agent and older-experienced agents facing attacks like this and refusing to take the volunteer cases like MN. So, we are left with what we have. I tend to side both are culpable for the current situation. Including the politicians, Leadership of ICE, and a President who created this and likely increased the hiring of individuals we know should never be hired..

[myboynoah]

If they are so totally exhausted and on edge that they pose a threat to American citizens, then they need to be taken from the field. Can't have that danger out there.

Two people are dead, shot by ICE/CBP. We need total transparency on what is happening in the aftermath. We should not trust the same bunch of keystone cops that put the officers out there to do an investigation that protects our rights.

[Shaka]

I completely agree. The ICE agents who were newly hired need to be culled. Not get rid of all of them as I am sure there are good apples, but there should be some sort of FBI profile or full mental assessment done to continue as an agent. In addition to a complete review of who can and should be in the field.

A large percentage are coming from the military. Number me among those who do not think just being in the military qualifies one for duty as a law enforcement officer. I'm sure many vets will be fine, but many are not. What we really need are a bunch of sharp, common-sense possessing, Bo Diddley-type military guys.

I actually agree with the clean cut, no visible tats requirement as well. I watch a few trusted civil rights auditor channels as well as a civil rights attorney channel. Mostly, these channels deal with bad cops. More often than not, the cop behaving like an idiot is a veteran and has the visible tattoos to prove it. I realize that there are many fine veteran-turned law enforcement officers with visible tats. However, maybe a clean-cut, no visible tattoos requirement could be useful in weeding out the unsuitable. Explain in Basic that if your goal is to eventually become a fed, visible tattoos will be disqualifying. Those serious about a future career as a fed and willing to sacrifice a little arm-art to do it might be worthy of further consideration.

[dabrockster]

If they are so totally exhausted and on edge that they pose a threat to American citizens, then they need to be taken from the field. Can't have that danger out there.

Two people are dead, shot by ICE/CBP. We need total transparency on what is happening in the aftermath. We should not trust the same bunch of keystone cops that put the officers out there to do an investigation that protects our rights.

Agreed. There is no standard right now and it seems to be "Who wants to Volunteer" and the wrong ones are going. That falls on the leadership at ICE. The FBI taking full control of the investigation is also not what is needed. I like Tom Homan getting involved and he should be. He has the experience and seems to have lead through various adminsitrations.

[BigPiney]

Agreed. There is no standard right now and it seems to be "Who wants to Volunteer" and the wrong ones are going. That falls on the leadership at ICE. The FBI taking full control of the investigation is also not what is needed. I like Tom Homan getting involved and he should be. He has the experience and seems to have lead through various adminsitrations.

Gravy Seals and Meal Team 6

[chrisrenrut]

Agreed. There is no standard right now and it seems to be "Who wants to Volunteer" and the wrong ones are going. That falls on the leadership at ICE. The FBI taking full control of the investigation is also not what is needed. I like Tom Homan getting involved and he should be. He has the experience and seems to have lead through various adminsitrations.

I was thinking about this earlier, in terms of investigating the shootings. If a regular city police, county sheriff, or state patrol officer is involved in a shooting, there are immediate and strict protocols in place to preserve crime scene, evidence, and use it investigated by a third party.

Does DHS have such protocols? Or standards for appearance, filming, use of force, hours of duty, fitness for duty, etc.? It seems that if they do, they are frequently ignored or thrown out the window.

[Northwestcoug]

It is easy to armchair QB the agents in the field without the knowledge or understanding the extreme level of stress they are under. They are human and this unattainable opinion they should be able to "handle it" is wrong. They should be held to a higher standard but as one of the quotes states..



Should they be held accountable? Yes, but as I have always said. The efforts and purpose of certain groups co-mingled in these protests are wanting these types of results for their purpose. Sadly, many of you think there is no such thing. I disagree.. I look at this and look back to the time when Law Enforcement were equally villainized for the actions of a few and the number of shooting of officers, fake calls to then be killed, officers sitting in their car having a guy walk up and shot them point-blank in the head. ICE has seen the similar levels of attack (Snipers shooting at facilities, shooting of ICE agents, mobs backed by politicians at facilities.). Add the fact, we have new agents who have no business even being an agent and older-experienced agents facing attacks like this and refusing to take the volunteer cases like MN. So, we are left with what we have. I tend to side both are culpable for the current situation. Including the politicians, Leadership of ICE, and a President who created this and likely increased the hiring of individuals we know should never be hired..

Dabrockster, with respect, I'm interpreting your posts of the last few weeks as you being incredulous that most of us here do not reside on the same part of the political spectrum as you. You've referred to this website as an echo chamber multiple times. You seem to be offended that since you have given 'olive branches' to the liberal viewpoints we should reciprocate in turn.

Here is my olive branch. There has to be immigration enforcement. Reasonable laws should be enacted, subject to the will of the people. If the will of the people is against laws, they should advocate for reform. If that doesn't work, they have every right to protest. Any violence should be widely condemned.

Here is where I take back a sprig of that olive branch. The violence in Minneapolis and other places has overwhelmingly been one-sided. The government is overwhelmingly armed. They have been parading around the streets, entering places in a way that most local law enforcement knows is a provocation. They stalk minorities and apprehend them in vulnerable states. They racially profile citizens. They disappear people and don't allow lawyers or elected leaders access to detention centers. They violently attack people with overwhelming force, with the knowledge that masks and leadership will keep them immune from prosecution. They flaunt the constitution in multiple ways. And although we are only seeing a few bad actors committing the worst atrocities, when the entire ICE operation is behaving with such impunity it is not unfair to reason that the entire organization needs to be rebuilt from the top down.

With this overwhelming power imbalance, of course you are going to get people confronting the government, yelling in their faces and impeding unconstitutional actions. When the president uses ICE as an occupying force of course the governor and mayor are going to react. And when ICE uses overwhelmingly inappropriate force in turn, then of course the people will start to see mob-like action as a viable tactic. And whatever violence the people return to the government it is returned with overwhelming force. In Minneapolis, there is only one side that has lost innocent lives with no hope for justice. And despite the years'-long insistence on the right that paid agitators are to blame, the protestors are overwhelmingly your fellow citizens trying to maintain their communities.

So sure, everyone shares some blame here. If this is the confession you want out of one of the liberals here you've got it. But if your both-sides argument doesn't include an overwhelming amount of blame on Trump, his advisors, and ICE, then I take back that olive branch.

[SteelBlue]

Agreed. There is no standard right now and it seems to be "Who wants to Volunteer" and the wrong ones are going. That falls on the leadership at ICE. The FBI taking full control of the investigation is also not what is needed. I like Tom Homan getting involved and he should be. He has the experience and seems to have lead through various adminsitrations.

Much of the recruitment occurred after the initial masked snatch and grabs on the streets of Socal and all around the country. The "right ones" want no part of what the new arm of this force seems clearly meant to be.

[dabrockster]

Dabrockster, with respect, I'm interpreting your posts of the last few weeks as you being incredulous that most of us here do not reside on the same part of the political spectrum as you. You've referred to this website as an echo chamber multiple times. You seem to be offended that since you have given 'olive branches' to the liberal viewpoints we should reciprocate in turn.

Here is my olive branch. There has to be immigration enforcement. Reasonable laws should be enacted, subject to the will of the people. If the will of the people is against laws, they should advocate for reform. If that doesn't work, they have every right to protest. Any violence should be widely condemned.

Here is where I take back a sprig of that olive branch. The violence in Minneapolis and other places has overwhelmingly been one-sided. The government is overwhelmingly armed. They have been parading around the streets, entering places in a way that most local law enforcement knows is a provocation. They stalk minorities and apprehend them in vulnerable states. They racially profile citizens. They disappear people and don't allow lawyers or elected leaders access to detention centers. They violently attack people with overwhelming force, with the knowledge that masks and leadership will keep them immune from prosecution. They flaunt the constitution in multiple ways. And although we are only seeing a few bad actors committing the worst atrocities, when the entire ICE operation is behaving with such impunity it is not unfair to reason that the entire organization needs to be rebuilt from the top down.

With this overwhelming power imbalance, of course you are going to get people confronting the government, yelling in their faces and impeding unconstitutional actions. When the president uses ICE as an occupying force of course the governor and mayor are going to react. And when ICE uses overwhelmingly inappropriate force in turn, then of course the people will start to see mob-like action as a viable tactic. And whatever violence the people return to the government it is returned with overwhelming force. In Minneapolis, there is only one side that has lost innocent lives with no hope for justice. And despite the years'-long insistence on the right that paid agitators are to blame, the protestors are overwhelmingly your fellow citizens trying to maintain their communities.

So sure, everyone shares some blame here. If this is the confession you want out of one of the liberals here you've got it. But if your both-sides argument doesn't include an overwhelming amount of blame on Trump, his advisors, and ICE, then I take back that olive branch.

Truthfully, I don't want or need some sort of validation. I have been fairly vocal on my stance (Like many have been as well.). It is the incessant broad-brush bullshit when I bring up counter arguments that annoys me. Many pound the drum of who they believe is in the wrong. I throw in additional opinions.

But, I think you can look at my post and see what I said and see who I listed as culpable. I think you can easily see who I identified and who I did not.. And my initial post stated as such as well. Take that for what it's worth (Olive branch removed or not)..

I tend to side both are culpable for the current situation. Including the politicians, Leadership of ICE, and a President who created this and likely increased the hiring of individuals we know should never be hired..

[Northwestcoug]

Truthfully, I don't want or need some sort of validation. I have been fairly vocal on my stance (Like many have been as well.). It is the incessant broad-brush bullshit when I bring up counter arguments that annoys me. Many pound the drum of who they believe is in the wrong. I throw in additional opinions.

But, I think you can look at my post and see what I said and see who I listed as culpable. I think you can easily see who I identified and who I did not.. And my initial post stated as such as well. Take that for what it's worth (Olive branch removed or not)..

I don't have a huge problem with that quote. I was mostly reacting to your other posts about professional agitators and the appropriateness of the Minnesota protests, which I disagree with.

And I think my olive branch quip came across as more snarky than I intended. Apologies.

[falafel]

Bovino deserves it. His comments immediately after were ridiculous. Same with Noem and Patel. Their party line should be something along the lines of this being an unfortunate incident, and we will reserve judgment until the facts come out.

agreed

[YOhio]

If Noem gets fired I can't help but feel bad for BigPiney. After all he's been through he now has to deal with America's most notorious dog assassin maybe losing her job in disgrace. He just can't catch a break.

[BigPiney]

If Noem gets fired I can't help but feel bad for BigPiney. After all he's been through he now has to deal with America's most notorious dog assassin maybe losing her job in disgrace. He just can't catch a break.

Thank you. I feel seen.