JD Vance is a duplicitous POS

[USUC]

I could have chosen my words better. He was smart enough to become a senator and the vice president. He's a good politician, which requires some intelligence. But he absolutely flails when asked hard questions, like the one above or claiming hilariously that DC is significantly down in 9 short days. That's,,,,just not an intelligent argument. Good politics though.

He is clearly intelligent. But he is handicapped in the way every accomplished GOP politician is by Trump's narcissistic demands and inconsistencies. It's the price to pay for jumping in bed with him for power. His apparent national conservative political philosophy is dumb as rocks though and I hope he can't wash the stink of Trump off of him to hold the presidency.

[USUC]

The "fascism stuff," isn't silly. I wouldn't so quickly dismiss that term. My friend, I think it is stubborn to recoil at that term being used. Its almost out in the open.

But he's not fascist. There is plenty of awful things about him that stand on their own.

[Bo Diddley]

But he's not fascist. There is plenty of awful things about him that stand on their own.

That really depends on how you define fascist. He certainly resembles a fascist in some ways, not the least of which was inciting a riot on Jan 6 to disrupt the democratic process.

[USUC]

That really depends on how you define fascist. He certainly resembles a fascist in some ways, not the least of which was inciting a riot on Jan 6 to disrupt the democratic process.

Sure, if we are defining fascism in the same way reactionary conservatives define communism.

[Maximus]

But he's not fascist. There is plenty of awful things about him that stand on their own.

what ice is doing is fascist. kicking out immigrants for political views is fascist.

[falafel]

I think a Vance presidency could be more destructive than a Trump presidency.

Vance doesn't have any kind of executive-level charisma. He may come from hillbilly stock, but he doesn't talk or act like a hillbilly.

[falafel]

Trump is the most vile, crude, and unabashedly sectarian president in the modern era. But Wilson and Roosevelt were more authoritarian than Trump (to this point). His corruption and narcissism gets conflated with authoritarianism and this appears to be the antichrist. He most certainly is an authoritarian, but the fascism stuff is just silly. Populism of his brand is not unprecedented, even if his narcissism is.

We can fight about what the term fascism means and whether it applies all day, but at some point the balance point will tip and it will be facism. Let's not get so caught up on the semantics that we don't watch what is actually happening.

[USUC]

We can fight about what the term fascism means and whether it applies all day, but at some point the balance point will tip and it will be facism. Let's not get so caught up on the semantics that we don't watch what is actually happening.

Semantics do matter though.* Leaving aside a conversation about thephilosophical underpinnings of fascism and the historical context in which it arose, the term is used to be purposefully inflammatory and is counterproductive to persuading those who are lukewarm Trumpers.

*as a graduate of the college of humanities, the phrase "let's not get caught up in semantics" is like nails on a chalkboard.

[frank ryan]

Semantics do matter though.* Leaving aside a conversation about thephilosophical underpinnings of fascism and the historical context in which it arose, the term is used to be purposefully inflammatory and is counterproductive to persuading those who are lukewarm Trumpers.

*as a graduate of the college of humanities, the phrase "let's not get caught up in semantics" is like nails on a chalkboard.

I'm happy to discuss what fascism means and what sets it apart from other isms. You aren't so gatekeepy with other terms like socialism or authoritarianism.

I'm using it to be accurate, not purposely inflammatory. Im not sure restraining language in order to avoid offending Trump supports has any value at this point.


Im happy to discuss fascism and why I think that's what this is.
I think my worrying about Trump's awfulness has been validated. As have what I've said about his relationship to Epstein and subservience to Putin.

How do you define fascism?


Wilson and FDR weren't authoritarian like Trump. They didn't look to pardon sex-offenders to avert scrutiny. Using them as examples of tyranny is a bit John Birchish/Cleon Skouseny

[falafel]

Semantics do matter though.* Leaving aside a conversation about thephilosophical underpinnings of fascism and the historical context in which it arose, the term is used to be purposefully inflammatory and is counterproductive to persuading those who are lukewarm Trumpers.

*as a graduate of the college of humanities, the phrase "let's not get caught up in semantics" is like nails on a chalkboard.

Words have meaning, but arguing about whether the precise meaning of the word fits this exact situation is fruitless, especially when the situation keeps getting more and more dire.

[USUC]

Guys, you are being ridiculous. Yes Trump is bad. In fact he is terrible. He is making terrible economic policies. Yes he is using the police state to execute his immigration policies and "tackle" high crime blue cities. But what is driving this? These are his pet projects. The only things he cares about. He cares about tarrifs, he cares about crime, and he cares about immigration. So how does he go about doing this? The only way he has done anything. By strong arming and corruption. He is a mob boss. He isn't Mussolini. He isn't Hitler. Fascism is all encompassing. It is "Everything in the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State." Trump couldn't care less about much else and his narcissism guides him in these things. He doesnt have a grand strategy of the state. He is a mob boss. Yes, he has some things in common with fascists. I also have things in common with Brad Pitt. Am I Brad Pitt?

Just be normal and keep things in perspective. Trump is bad. He's an asshole. He's a bully. He's dumb. Tduts more than enough to be worried about the way he operates.

[falafel]

Guys, you are being ridiculous. Yes Trump is bad. In fact he is terrible. He is making terrible economic policies. Yes he is using the police state to execute his immigration policies and "tackle" high crime blue cities. But what is driving this? These are his pet projects. The only things he cares about. He cares about tarrifs, he cares about crime, and he cares about immigration. So how does he go about doing this? The only way he has done anything. By strong arming and corruption. He is a mob boss. He isn't Mussolini. He isn't Hitler. Fascism is all encompassing. It is "Everything in the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State." Trump couldn't care less about much else and his narcissism guides him in these things. He doesnt have a grand strategy of the state. He is a mob boss. Yes, he has some things in common with fascists. I also have things in common with Brad Pitt. Am I Brad Pitt?

Just be normal and keep things in perspective. Trump is bad. He's an asshole. He's a bully. He's dumb. Tduts more than enough to be worried about the way he operates.

Bro, you are being obtuse! My only point is who gives a shit about labels, let's keep our eyes on what is actually happening.

[chrisrenrut]

Guys, you are being ridiculous. Yes Trump is bad. In fact he is terrible. He is making terrible economic policies. Yes he is using the police state to execute his immigration policies and "tackle" high crime blue cities. But what is driving this? These are his pet projects. The only things he cares about. He cares about tarrifs, he cares about crime, and he cares about immigration. So how does he go about doing this? The only way he has done anything. By strong arming and corruption. He is a mob boss. He isn't Mussolini. He isn't Hitler. Fascism is all encompassing. It is "Everything in the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State." Trump couldn't care less about much else and his narcissism guides him in these things. He doesnt have a grand strategy of the state. He is a mob boss. Yes, he has some things in common with fascists. I also have things in common with Brad Pitt. Am I Brad Pitt?

Just be normal and keep things in perspective. Trump is bad. He's an asshole. He's a bully. He's dumb. Tduts more than enough to be worried about the way he operates.

Don’t place it all on Trump. What about Miller, Vance, Bannon, and others who push Trump to do these authoritarian things? The he Heritage Foundation? Project 2025? Aren’t those thing a bit more encompassing? Do you think fascism is binary, or could it be a continuum that we are being led down?

[falafel]

Don’t place it all on Trump. What about Miller, Vance, Bannon, and others who push Trump to do these authoritarian things? The he Heritage Foundation? Project 2025? Aren’t those thing a bit more encompassing? Do you think fascism is binary, or could it be a continuum that we are being led down?

That's my whole point.

[USUC]

Don’t place it all on Trump. What about Miller, Vance, Bannon, and others who push Trump to do these authoritarian things? The he Heritage Foundation? Project 2025? Aren’t those thing a bit more encompassing? Do you think fascism is binary, or could it be a continuum that we are being led down?

Fascism is a continuum? Come on.

The word you all are looking for is authoritarian. It just slips off the tongue and is accurate. Problem solved!

The problem with all the names you mentioned are that Trump doesn't care what they think. He'll use them as pawns if it meets his narcissistic needs. Trump is TACO. He isn't philosophical and doesn't care about the philosophy of those around him. They are told for the mob boss.

Look, you guys use fascism incorrectly to express the genuine concerns of his authoritarianism. But you should focus on the actual issues, not using a phrase that conjures up images of smoking stacks at concentration camps. Everyone knows that isnt happening so you are allowing soft Trumpers to dismiss your concerns while the hyberbolic applaud. As falafel said, "let's keep our eyes on what is actually happening."

Anyway, I think I've made my point.