Elon Musk is a weirdo POS

[Moliere]

You are seriously referring to RFK in support for your argument? OK, let's do this. How can the answer be "flawless" when it is a fallacy—a red herring fallacy.

So, because one person could choose to smoke, healthcare is not a basic human right?


In case you are struggling to understand why it is a fallacy ... because one person has a genetic predisposition to high cholesterol, healthcare is not a basic human right? We could keep going ...

Heart disease
Cancer
Asthma

Why would health care be a human right? Please explain why it’s different than housing, heat, or sex.

[tooblue]

Why would health care be a human right? Please explain why it’s different than housing, heat, or sex.

You first explain how a fallacious argument supports the idea that it is not a human right.

[Jeff Lebowski]

You are seriously referring to RFK in support for your argument? OK, let's do this. How can the answer be "flawless" when it is a fallacy—a red herring fallacy.

So, because one person could choose to smoke, healthcare is not a basic human right?


In case you are struggling to understand why it is a fallacy ... because one person has a genetic predisposition to high cholesterol, healthcare is not a basic human right? We could keep going ...

Heart disease
Cancer
Asthma

There are lots of reasons why it is absurd to consider health care a human right. Two of which he highlighted in the exchange: 1) unlike freedom of speech, etc, it requires financial resources from other people, and 2) what constitutes health care is impossible to define. Is access to free Ozempic a human right? Sex change operations? Cosmetic surgery? An MRI every time there any medical question at play? All are health care.

[tooblue]

There are lots of reasons why it is absurd to consider health care a human right. Two of which he highlighted in the exchange: 1) unlike freedom of speech, etc, it requires financial resources from other people, and 2) what constitutes health care is impossible to define. Is access to free Ozempic a human right? Sex change operations? Cosmetic surgery? An MRI every time there any medical question at play? All are health care.

The argument both you and Kennedy make can only go one place: to the red herring logical fallacy, meaning the argument you are both making is built on a fallacious foundation. To be precise, your argument is based on a mistaken belief.

Further, speech is not free. Learning to speak requires learning a language, which requires an investment of resources. Spoken and written language is a human invention and technology that has required a significant investment of resources across millennia. You and Kennedy merely consider it free because human culture has enshrined it as a right through the efforts, financial and otherwise, of other people which in the modern era is largely hidden from you.

Further still, speech is not free because it comes with consequences, for example: using language to make a fallacious argument that healthcare is "impossible to define." If healthcare is impossible to define, all types of care are impossible to define? Is that the absurd argument you are making? If so, that is a mistaken belief.

[Jeff Lebowski]

The argument both you and Kennedy make can only go one place: to the red herring logical fallacy, meaning the argument you are both making is built on a fallacious foundation. To be precise, your argument is based on a mistaken belief.

Further, speech is not free. Learning to speak requires learning a language, which requires an investment of resources. Spoken and written language is a human invention and technology that has required a significant investment of resources across millennia. You and Kennedy merely consider it free because human culture has enshrined it as a right through the efforts, financial and otherwise, of other people which in the modern era is largely hidden from you.

Further still, speech is not free because it comes with consequences, for example: using language to make a fallacious argument that healthcare is "impossible to define." If healthcare is impossible to define, all types of care are impossible to define? Is that the absurd argument you are making? If so, that is a mistaken belief.

Funny that you started with "fallacious foundation" and then followed it with that tortured word salad. Oh boy.

Here is what a neurosurgeon in Europe had to say about the point in question in the British Journal of Medicine:

Firstly, health care is difficult to define. It clearly encompasses preventive care (for example, immunisation), public health measures, health promotion, and medical and surgical treatment of established illness. Is the so called human right to health care a right to basic provision of clean water and adequate food, or does everyone in the world have a right to organ transplantation, cosmetic surgery, infertility treatment, and the most expensive medicine? For something to count as a human right the minimum requirement should surely be that the right in question is capable of definition.

Secondly, all rights possessed by an individual imply a duty on the part of others. Thus the right to a fair trial imposes a duty on the prosecuting authority to be fair. On whom does the duty to provide health care to all the world’s citizens fall? Is it a duty on individual doctors, or hospital authorities, or governments, or only rich governments? It is difficult to see how any provision of benefits can be termed a human right (as opposed to a legal entitlement) when to meet such a requirement would impose an intolerable burden on others.

...

To propose that health care be considered a human right is not only wrong headed, it is unhelpful. Mature debate on the rationing and sharing of limited resources can hardly take place when citizens start from the premise that health care is their right, like a fair trial or the right to vote. I suspect that the proponents of the notion think that to claim health care as a human right adds some kind of weight or authority to the idea that health care, and by extension healthcare professionals, is important. A more humble approach would achieve more in the long run.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC1126951/

[frank ryan]

Why would health care be a human right? Please explain why it’s different than housing, heat, or sex.

Not weighing other than to say, sex is not a good comparison. Shelter is a better parallel.

[tooblue]

Funny that you started with "fallacious foundation" and then followed it with that tortured word salad. Oh boy.

Here is what a neurosurgeon in Europe had to say about the point in question in the British Journal of Medicine:

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC1126951/

Ad hominem (fallacy). Oh boy.

Appeal to authority (fallacy). OK

Let's entertain and more broadly consider your authoritative source, understanding that your article is written by one voice and that one voice is not representative of all voices. So, let's consider another voice(s) from another article posted on that same repository that thoughtfully considers whether or not Healthcare is a human right. The articles argues:

"We, therefore, find that the question of whether health care should be offered as a right is complex, with ethical, judicial and financial tensions."

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4326121/

That strikes me as a good starting point for a discussion about Healthcare as a right. It takes into account other voices and identifies that the issue is complex, and is considerate of the idea that reasonable people can agree it is possible to enshrine access to healthcare as a human right.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Ad hominem (fallacy). Oh boy.

Appeal to authority (fallacy). OK

Let's entertain and more broadly consider your authoritative source, understanding that your article is written by one voice and that one voice is not representative of all voices. So, let's consider another voice(s) from another article posted on that same repository that thoughtfully considers whether or not Healthcare is a human right. The articles argues:

"We, therefore, find that the question of whether health care should be offered as a right is complex, with ethical, judicial and financial tensions."

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4326121/

That strikes me as a good starting point for a discussion about Healthcare as a right. It takes into account other voices and identifies that the issue is complex, and is considerate of the idea that reasonable people can agree it is possible to enshrine access to healthcare as a human right.

Indeed, a lot of people try to make the argument that it is a human right. They are all wrong, of course.

Calling health care a human right is a rhetorical trick to add weight and moral authority to the argument. There are plenty of compelling and more honest ways to argue for strong public health care funding.

[tooblue]

Indeed, a lot of people try to make the argument that it is a human right. They are all wrong, of course.

Calling health care a human right is a rhetorical trick to add weight and moral authority to the argument. There are plenty of compelling and more honest ways to argue for strong public health care funding.

Ad hominem again? A rhetorical trick?

My sentiment that health care is a basic human right is sincere and honest. The challenge is, if I further express why my sentiment is sincere and honest, the retort will be to label my sincerity and honesty as sanctimony. Which is another fallacy.

[YOhio]

I love this kind of stuff. He might be a weirdo, but I have a soft spot for the dreamers.

Embedded Tweet

[Jeff Lebowski]

Ad hominem again? A rhetorical trick?

My sentiment that health care is a basic human right is sincere and honest. The challenge is, if I further express why my sentiment is sincere and honest, the retort will be to label my sincerity and honesty as sanctimony. Which is another fallacy.

Good grief. Why do you always pretend to be such a victim?

[tooblue]

Good grief. Why do you always pretend to be such a victim?

Again, ad hominem? lol ... Your arguments are based on mistaken beliefs (fallacies), which bluntly means they are wrong.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Again, ad hominem? lol ... Your arguments are based on mistaken beliefs (fallacies), which bluntly means they are wrong.

You are proving my point. You interpret literally any pushback as an ad hominem attack, which is absurd.

You also fancy yourself as a fallacy expert, but you don't seem to understand them. For example, the ad hominem fallacy is when someone claims there is something wrong with the speaker, therefore the argument is wrong - rather than directly addressing the argument with facts, logic, etc. Here is a classic example of an ad hominem response:

You are seriously referring to RFK in support for your argument?

[Northwestcoug]

Just gonna slide in here and share this book, for anyone who might be interested:

original-1033-1379358263-14.jpg

[tooblue]

You are proving my point. You interpret literally any pushback as an ad hominem attack, which is absurd.

You also fancy yourself as a fallacy expert, but you don't seem to understand them. For example, the ad hominem fallacy is when someone claims there is something wrong with the speaker, therefore the argument is wrong - rather than directly addressing the argument with facts, logic, etc. Here is a classic example of an ad hominem response:

I am not an expert. Pushback is warranted and welcome, especially absent ad hominem. My question concerning citing RFK was a sincere one. And I responded with a sincere response to the fallacy in his argument in the linked video.

My position is clear: I believe access to healthcare is a basic human right. My belief is an honest expression in large part informed by my faith. I agree with the statement I perviously quoted: "that the question of whether health care should be offered as a right is complex, with ethical, judicial and financial tensions."