A Funny Thing Happened on the Way To Jerusalem: Gaza/Israel conflict

[Uncle Ted]

Hat's off to Hamas, I guess. Their overall strategy has worked.

1. Rape, murder, kidnap on a scale so large that it warrants a forceful response from Israel.
2. Embed your military assets in the middle of an highly congested urban setting to ensure massive civilian casualties.
3. Use the resulting casualties to inflame public outrage at Israel's response.
4. Delay or kill the Saudi/Israel alliance and ignite global anti-semite/anti-Israel movements.

Terrorism works.

3.a. Post 50 anti-israel tic toc (and other popular social media outlets) videos for every anti-hamas video to pump up those inflamed public numbers and get the weak-minded to start protests on various college campuses instead of studying for their finals.

[fusnik]

Publicly gutting Israel's leverage in negotiations that could have negated the need for an invasion. Duh.

You guys monday morning quarterback and expect perfection from a democrat, its fascinating.

You act as if Biden stating publicly, which the has told Israel and Hamas and Saudi privately, is going to destroy all leverage the Israelis have.

If you have told Bibi consistently that he is not to attack a civilian center or you are taking the weapons away, and your intelligence is telling you hes ramping up for something you've askd him not to do, and you've been working with him for weeks and youve given him offramps, or different ways to eradicate Hamas, and hes still hell bent on going against your conditions, I dont think its out of bounds to air it publicly your conditions. The American taxpayer just wrote a 30b check to Israel, theres an argument that after negotiating this for months that we deserve to know the administrations conditions.

This all goes back to, what level of death are we comfortable with. 20k women and children dead, hundreds of aide workers, and realistically thousands more. I dont know any rational human that says Hamas shouldnt be eradicated, how you do that is an impossible task.

[Omaha 680]

You guys monday morning quarterback and expect perfection from a democrat, its fascinating.

You act as if Biden stating publicly, which the has told Israel and Hamas and Saudi privately, is going to destroy all leverage the Israelis have.

If you have told Bibi consistently that he is not to attack a civilian center or you are taking the weapons away, and your intelligence is telling you hes ramping up for something you've askd him not to do, and you've been working with him for weeks and youve given him offramps, or different ways to eradicate Hamas, and hes still hell bent on going against your conditions, I dont think its out of bounds to air it publicly your conditions. The American taxpayer just wrote a 30b check to Israel, theres an argument that after negotiating this for months that we deserve to know the administrations conditions.

This all goes back to, what level of death are we comfortable with. 20k women and children dead, hundreds of aide workers, and realistically thousands more. I dont know any rational human that says Hamas shouldnt be eradicated, how you do that is an impossible task.

What off ramps or different ways to eradicate Hamas have been offered? Off ramps that don't include return of every remaining hostage don't count. Off ramps that include a permanent cease fire leaving the leadership of Hamas in place don't count.

[Jeff Lebowski]

You guys monday morning quarterback and expect perfection from a democrat, its fascinating.

You act as if Biden stating publicly, which the has told Israel and Hamas and Saudi privately, is going to destroy all leverage the Israelis have.

If you have told Bibi consistently that he is not to attack a civilian center or you are taking the weapons away, and your intelligence is telling you hes ramping up for something you've askd him not to do, and you've been working with him for weeks and youve given him offramps, or different ways to eradicate Hamas, and hes still hell bent on going against your conditions, I dont think its out of bounds to air it publicly your conditions. The American taxpayer just wrote a 30b check to Israel, theres an argument that after negotiating this for months that we deserve to know the administrations conditions.

This all goes back to, what level of death are we comfortable with. 20k women and children dead, hundreds of aide workers, and realistically thousands more. I dont know any rational human that says Hamas shouldnt be eradicated, how you do that is an impossible task.

Whether he first gutted that leverage publicly or privately is beside the point isn’t it?

He was also asked in that interview if US weapons have been used to kill children. That was a loaded and manipulative question and he stepped right into it with a dumb answer. Which leads me to believe that he is being swayed by the political left at this point.

[USUC]

You guys monday morning quarterback and expect perfection from a democrat, its fascinating.

download.jpg

[old_gregg]

This all goes back to, what level of death are we comfortable with. 20k women and children dead, hundreds of aide workers, and realistically thousands more. I dont know any rational human that says Hamas shouldnt be eradicated, how you do that is an impossible task.

it aint that complicated: we should be comfortable with whatever level of death and destruction the populace experiencing that death and destruction and its freely and fairly elected governing body is. the population of gaza continues to overwhelmingly support hamas not just as a political body but as an ideological one, cheering the murder, rape and imprisonment of civilians, including women and kids. the west doesn’t get to cry uncle on someone else’s behalf. anything less than a full idf occupation and administration of every inch in, above and below gaza is an endorsement of terrorism as a legitimate means of achieving political ends. when the residents of gaza reject the ideology that continues to perpetrate the rape and murder of civilians and start to report or at least not sanction rockets stored in schools, war councils happening in hospitals and tunnel networks under aid depots, the war will end. until then, you don’t get to treat civilians as worse than combatants when it suits you and then appeal to civility and humanity when the idf shows up to collect.

[Maximus]

Freely elected?

They have never been freely elected.

The elections are as free as Iran

[fusnik]

What off ramps or different ways to eradicate Hamas have been offered? Off ramps that don't include return of every remaining hostage don't count. Off ramps that include a permanent cease fire leaving the leadership of Hamas in place don't count.

I don’t know exactly what options the U.S. told Israel that we were willing to swallow. I do know we give them billions of dollars and their current leader is a criminal and did a horrific job of protecting his people.

If you wiped out all of the Hamas leadership today, do you really think that Hamas is eradicated?

We are staring at another Iraq/Isis/Taliban situation where hundreds of thousands of civilians end up paying the price with their lives and the outcome is entrenched extremism with a different flavor of militant control.

[fusnik]

it aint that complicated: we should be comfortable with whatever level of death and destruction the populace experiencing that death and destruction and its freely and fairly elected governing body is. the population of gaza continues to overwhelmingly support hamas not just as a political body but as an ideological one, cheering the murder, rape and imprisonment of civilians, including women and kids. the west doesn’t get to cry uncle on someone else’s behalf. anything less than a full idf occupation and administration of every inch in, above and below gaza is an endorsement of terrorism as a legitimate means of achieving political ends. when the residents of gaza reject the ideology that continues to perpetrate the rape and murder of civilians and start to report or at least not sanction rockets stored in schools, war councils happening in hospitals and tunnel networks under aid depots, the war will end. until then, you don’t get to treat civilians as worse than combatants when it suits you and then appeal to civility and humanity when the idf shows up to collect.

This is at least a cogent expression of the mass eradication of millions of people. Kudos.

Wish you were in control of America when WW2 happened, we could have dropped 30 atomic bombs all over Germany, Italy and Japan and killed everyone who voted for those who empowered the leadership of those countries. Imagine how much better the world would be without the Germans, Japanese and Italians!

[fusnik]

Whether he first gutted that leverage publicly or privately is beside the point isn’t it?

He was also asked in that interview if US weapons have been used to kill children. That was a loaded and manipulative question and he stepped right into it with a dumb answer. Which leads me to believe that he is being swayed by the political left at this point.

Or so demented he didn’t know the difference between a kid and soldier, amirite?

[old_gregg]

Freely elected?

They have never been freely elected.

The elections are as free as Iran

complete dice loading nonsense that just facially ignores the mountain of impartial evidence, including from impartial third party western observers, to the contrary. wild how people can cling to these made up claims that the populace of gaza is somehow exculpated from complicity in the actions of hamas and is being held at gunpoint when they insist in anonymous third party data gathering exercises that the murder of civilians in their homes is righteous. there is an easier answer here.

[old_gregg]

This is at least a cogent expression of the mass eradication of millions of people. Kudos.

Wish you were in control of America when WW2 happened, we could have dropped 30 atomic bombs all over Germany, Italy and Japan and killed everyone who voted for those who empowered the leadership of those countries. Imagine how much better the world would be without the Germans, Japanese and Italians!

they surrendered, dumbass

[fusnik]

they surrendered, dumbass

lol.

When it comes to this you are absolutely unhinged and borderline psychotic.

Game this out in the real world. To accomplish what you advocate the IDF would need to:

hit Gaza with an aerial assault targeting all military instillations

bomb mosques, schools, hospitals, buildings and roads

Clear thousands of buildings of any sympathetics with ground forces

Occupy Gaza with thousands of IDF soldiers for 20-30 years

All while thousands of dead childrens pictures are being broadcast all around the globe.

What could go wrong?

I’d love to hear your thoughts on what we should do with Putin and the Russians considering their terrorism, rape of women and the stealing of children is 10x the magnitude of Oct 7.

[Maximus]

complete dice loading nonsense that just facially ignores the mountain of impartial evidence, including from impartial third party western observers, to the contrary. wild how people can cling to these made up claims that the populace of gaza is somehow exculpated from complicity in the actions of hamas and is being held at gunpoint when they insist in anonymous third party data gathering exercises that the murder of civilians in their homes is righteous. there is an easier answer here.

20 years ago an election was held and then they killed the opposing parties and kill anyone who protests against them . That is not a free election.

[Omaha 680]

I don’t know exactly what options the U.S. told Israel that we were willing to swallow.

Hmmm. Seems like you might have just made that part up in a stream of consciousness post based on your perceptions/feelings, then? We know for a fact that Hamas has rejected multiple bona fide cease fire proposals that Israel signed on to including deals that would exchange legitimate Hamas prisoners for Israeli civilian hostages at a rate of 20:1. So any off ramp you allude to that Israel is rejecting would necessarily need to be more generous to Hamas those previous proposals. It would be nice to know details before judging if Israel is being unreasonable by rejecting these supposed off ramps.