Transgender issues and discussions

[The_Tick]

how eactly will this improve the lives of cis women?

Well I am not going to play your word game. There are biological women, and then everyone else. Been that way for thousands of years. We've only decided to allow the insanity for the last few years. It is crazy talk.

We have lost our way as a society. This is slowly creeping back.

[Moliere]

how eactly will this improve the lives of cis women?

It would ensure that their rights are protected

[Maximus]

It would ensure that their rights are protected

tbh id give you guys 95% of the rope back to the norm 5-8 years ago if R legisilatures didnt take the rope to do more than protect women sports.

[Moliere]

tbh id give you guys 95% of the rope back to the norm 5-8 years ago if R legisilatures didnt take the rope to do more than protect women sports.

I wasn’t singling out just sports.

[Maximus]

I wasn’t singling out just sports.

Reproductive rights?

[Jeff Lebowski]

The Ezra Klein podcast this week was on trans issues and his guest was Sarah McBride, the only trans person in congress (D-Delaware). They discussed how the climate has changed on trans issues and politics in the last couple of years. I do have some issues with the podcast as I felt they both were a little disingenuous on (or overly dismissive of) some topics such as sports and treatment of minors (this episode was recorded just prior to SCOTUS ruling, btw). But all in all, it was an excellent podcast. McBride strikes me as a very smart and rational politician. Far more moderate than you might expect. I can see why she was elected. Highly recommended.

[Moliere]

The Ezra Klein podcast this week was on trans issues and his guest was Sarah McBride, the only trans person in congress (D-Delaware). They discussed how the climate has changed on trans issues and politics in the last couple of years. I do have some issues with the podcast as I felt they both were a little disingenuous on (or overly dismissive of) some topics such as sports and treatment of minors (this episode was recorded just prior to SCOTUS ruling, btw). But all in all, it was an excellent podcast. McBride strikes me as a very smart and rational politician. Far more moderate than you might expect. I can see why she was elected. Highly recommended.

I listened to it as well and felt pretty much the same way. It’s clear McBride is aware they over played their hand a lot in the purity tests and compelled speech areas and it’s interesting to see her walk that back. It’s definitely worth a listen even though it was long.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I listened to it as well and felt pretty much the same way. It’s clear McBride is aware they over played their hand a lot in the purity tests and compelled speech areas and it’s interesting to see her walk that back. It’s definitely worth a listen even though it was long.

Yeah, I thought one of the more interesting parts was the discussion on pronouns. Use someone's preferred pronouns? Fine. No big deal. Expect everyone to put pronouns in their bio and state their pronouns when they introduce themselves in public? GTFO, that is absurd. In a broader sense, one reason the trans movement hasn't gotten the traction of something like gay marriage is that gay marriage can arguably be seen as a live-and-let-live, "this doesn't affect me so why should I care?" issue. But things like shaming people for not using pronouns when they are cis-gender, biological males intruding on female sports, etc, directly impact people.

[MartyFunkhouser]

Yeah, I thought one of the more interesting parts was the discussion on pronouns. Use someone's preferred pronouns? Fine. No big deal. Expect everyone to put pronouns in their bio and state their pronouns when they introduce themselves in public? GTFO, that is absurd. In a broader sense, one reason the trans movement hasn't gotten the traction of something like gay marriage is that gay marriage can arguably be seen as a live-and-let-live, "this doesn't affect me so why should I care?" issue. But things like shaming people for not using pronouns when they are cis-gender, biological males intruding on female sports, etc, directly impact people.

The amount of anger that gets generated on both sides about pronouns is beyond absurd. I'll call people whatever pronouns they want. If they want me to call them some stupid made-up pronoun like zim/zhe/zer etc., you know I'll go ahead and do it. I don't really care. If you want me to call you some stupid made up bullshit, just give me a little grace when I occasionally mess up. Also, you are undermining the actual issues with these made up issues.

The people on the right that get so damn upset about pronouns it is just their way of screaming at transgender people to get the eff back in the closet because their existence makes them uncomfortable. On the left, the screaming down of people who just don't get the words right is this performative I'm so supportive BS. I think the important thing is to look at people's actual actions, not their adherence to the latest words.

Sorry about the slightly off topic rant.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I think the important thing is to look at people's actual actions, not their adherence to the latest words.

This is one of the points of discussion in the podcast. The strict policing of language on the left on this issue has been significantly detrimental.

[BigFatMeanie]

The amount of anger that gets generated on both sides about pronouns is beyond absurd. I'll call people whatever pronouns they want. If they want me to call them some stupid made-up pronoun like zim/zhe/zer etc., you know I'll go ahead and do it. I don't really care. If you want me to call you some stupid made up bullshit, just give me a little grace when I occasionally mess up. Also, you are undermining the actual issues with these made up issues.

The people on the right that get so damn upset about pronouns it is just their way of screaming at transgender people to get the eff back in the closet because their existence makes them uncomfortable. On the left, the screaming down of people who just don't get the words right is this performative I'm so supportive BS. I think the important thing is to look at people's actual actions, not their adherence to the latest words.

Sorry about the slightly off topic rant.

From now on, I expect you to refer to me as "His/Their Royal Blue Highness, because BYU is better than Utah and always will be, Big Fat Meanie" when you first reference me but any further references in the same communication can be shortened simply to ""His/Their Royal Blue Highness, Big Fat Meanie".

Thank you for affirming my identity by respecting my preferred pronouns and using them properly. When people don't use them properly they are being hurtful and hateful. Love trumps trumps hate!

[Jeff Lebowski]

Interesting article in the Atlantic recently.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...rmetti/683350/

The Liberal Misinformation Bubble About Youth Gender Medicine

Allow children to transition, or they will kill themselves. For more than a decade, this has been the strongest argument in favor of youth gender medicine—a scenario so awful that it stifled any doubts or questions about puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones.

“We often ask parents, ‘Would you rather have a dead son than a live daughter?’” Johanna Olson-Kennedy of Children’s Hospital Los Angeles once explained to ABC News. Variations on the phrase crop up in innumerable media articles and public statements by influencers, activists, and LGBTQ groups. The same idea—that the choice is transition or death—appeared in the arguments made by Elizabeth Prelogar, the Biden administration’s solicitor general, before the Supreme Court last year. Tennessee’s law prohibiting the use of puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones to treat minors with gender dysphoria would, she said, “increase the risk of suicide.”

But there is a huge problem with this emotive formulation: It isn’t true. When Justice Samuel Alito challenged the ACLU lawyer Chase Strangio on such claims during oral arguments, Strangio made a startling admission. He conceded that there is no evidence to support the idea that medical transition reduces adolescent suicide rates.

At first, Strangio dodged the question, saying that research shows that blockers and hormones reduce “depression, anxiety, and suicidality”—that is, suicidal thoughts. (Even that is debatable, according to reviews of the research literature.) But when Alito referenced a systematic review conducted for the Cass report in England, Strangio conceded the point. “There is no evidence in some—in the studies that this treatment reduces completed suicide,” he said. “And the reason for that is completed suicide, thankfully and admittedly, is rare, and we’re talking about a very small population of individuals with studies that don’t necessarily have completed suicides within them.”

Here was the trans-rights movement’s greatest legal brain, speaking in front of the nation’s highest court. And what he was saying was that the strongest argument for a hotly debated treatment was, in fact, not supported by the evidence.

I recall listening to a podcast featuring a young girl who had medically transitioned (breast removal and hormone therapy) to be a boy as a minor. He was very articulate and discussed the decision process leading up to the surgery. He said that the primary thing that pushed him to the decision to proceed with the surgery instead of waiting to become an adult is when his therapist and doctor told him if he didn't do the surgery, he might commit suicide. Yeesh.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Some interesting developments. Malcolm Gladwell opens up on how he formerly supported biological males in female sports because he was "cowed" into it by public pressure, but now deeply regrets having done so.

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Fascinating because he is a pretty liberal guy (I am a fan of his podcasts).

This has led to some interesting threads. In particular, this thread by Megan McCardle on her reporting on the Lia Thomas story is fascinating. To borrow from Gladwell, we are clearly at a tipping point.

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[frank ryan]

Some interesting developments. Malcolm Gladwell opens up on how he formerly supported biological males in female sports because he was "cowed" into it by public pressure, but now deeply regrets having done so.

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Fascinating because he is a pretty liberal guy (I am a fan of his podcasts).

This has led to some interesting threads. In particular, this thread by Megan McCardle on her reporting on the Lia Thomas story is fascinating. To borrow from Gladwell, we are clearly at a tipping point.

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I like Gladwell. I watched a snippet where he explained how poor of an interviewer of Rogan is and the problems with itz

He is pretty progressive for sure

[Jeff Lebowski]

Some interesting developments. Malcolm Gladwell opens up on how he formerly supported biological males in female sports because he was "cowed" into it by public pressure, but now deeply regrets having done so.

Pretty amazing response to Gladwell's flip flop. Well worth the read.

https://thecritic.co.uk/why-malcolm-...ver-be-enough/