2024 Presidential Election Thread

[frank ryan]

Regardless of who you are voting for, these words from Vance are applicable:



If your first reaction is to discount any part of this message based on who said it, you are part of the problem.

That sounds nice but what do you want to do about all the other troublesome things he has done, like admittedly lie about Haitian immigrants for political advantage.

His nice words have a welcomed sentiment but they aren't all that laudable if they aren't backed up by actions. In his case they aren't.

[fusnik]

I agree with you. He'd never say them. They were words that need to be spoken though.

Has anyone from the top of the Democratic ticket shared anything like that yet? I do see a lot of the younger population has become polarized and isn't able to separate someone's beliefs (political or religious) and able to maintain friendships.

Too many people only want to be around people that think like them, or speak like them. It is depressing.

Yes weeks ago:

Kamala-

This is America. You know, I was saying with a group of friends earlier: I think, in this moment, where we’ve dealt with so much that I think is quite exhausting around powerful forces that would try and divide us and try us, to have us, as Americans, pointing fingers at each other, that this movement that is about reminding each other that we have so much more in common than what separates us is so critically important, and this is about the strength of who we are as Americans. And this movement that we’re in about, as I like to say, seeing in the face of a stranger, a neighbor.

An extension of “love thy neighbor,” that you literally, in the face of a stranger, see a neighbor and approach each other with that level of dignity and grace and, and kindness.

[fusnik]

That sounds nice but what do you want to do about all the other troublesome things he has done, like admittedly lie about Haitian immigrants for political advantage.

His nice words have a welcomed sentiment but they aren't all that laudable if they aren't backed up by actions. In his case they aren't.

It doesn’t matter because YOU are the crazy one for not agreeing with some bull shit platitude from a vile human being.

[USUC]

It's my mission (well, for today at least) to get USUC and others to just warm up to the idea that although Trump isn't Mussolini, he is on the same side of the spectrum. It isn't just a both parties and leaders are terrible, which they are.

This looks like it would be a good article (behind a paywall, alas), but it starts off strong:



Then he apparently lists a bunch of people on the right who weren't afraid to make soft fascist claims in 2016, who support Trump 100% now. If the vast majority of elected GOP officials are all in with Trump now, exactly who is going to stop Trump's retribution campaign if he wins? If you were a betting person, after all we've seen, do you think Trump's second presidency would be within 2 standard deviations of normal presidencies?

But, I'm cheap so I'm not paying.

https://www.thebulwark.com/p/hitlers...itter-enablers

I genuinely appreciate the gesture. I think the disconnect with my position is that I do view politics through the small "l" libertarian frame. We tend to view things as statist/authoritarian vs liberty, not right wing vs left wing. Both parties have authoritarian strains to their policy preferences. I agree that Trump is on the authoritarian spectrum. Populism is an authoritarian approach to politics. Trump is a populist as is Bernie Sanders. Packing the court is authoritarian. Executive action sidestepping congress is authoritarian. Taking over cultural institutions and federally funded education programs, while excluding dissenting view points is authoritarian. So is denying election results. I don't favor Democratic or Republican priorities, so I see it as a wash in terrible policymaking and norm breaking. I fully admit that Trump is of poor character and his megalomania is beyond that of Harris.

However, I don't beleive Trump has the intellectual faculties, the power of persuasion, or the emotional will to implement his preferred policies. He contradicts his own positions regularly. He is motivated to flattery so those in the room will shower him with praise. And the people in the room changes constantly. I disagree that no one of peiciple or character will join his administration. There will be naive people who believe they can guide him. They will be both right and wrong. I know I'm also in the minority here but I beleive the SCOTUS will be an important check on him as well. This is the most classically liberal SCOTUS of our modern age. They are not stooges of Trump.

This is my hunch and belief. I may be wrong. I can see how people who have a different philosophical framework than I would disagree.

[The_Tick]

Yes weeks ago:

Kamala-

This is America. You know, I was saying with a group of friends earlier: I think, in this moment, where we’ve dealt with so much that I think is quite exhausting around powerful forces that would try and divide us and try us, to have us, as Americans, pointing fingers at each other, that this movement that is about reminding each other that we have so much more in common than what separates us is so critically important, and this is about the strength of who we are as Americans. And this movement that we’re in about, as I like to say, seeing in the face of a stranger, a neighbor.

An extension of “love thy neighbor,” that you literally, in the face of a stranger, see a neighbor and approach each other with that level of dignity and grace and, and kindness.

Hadn't seen that before. I like that also.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I agree with you. He'd never say them. They were words that need to be spoken though.

Has anyone from the top of the Democratic ticket shared anything like that yet? I do see a lot of the younger population has become polarized and isn't able to separate someone's beliefs (political or religious) and able to maintain friendships.

Too many people only want to be around people that think like them, or speak like them. It is depressing.

Yeah, this isn't true. Biden and Harris have both said things like this because they are normal human being. Biden was joking around with that Trump guy a few weeks ago, wearing his trump hat, etc.

[Northwestcoug]

However, I don't beleive Trump has the intellectual faculties, the power of persuasion, or the emotional will to implement his preferred policies. He contradicts his own positions regularly. He is motivated to flattery so those in the room will shower him with praise. And the people in the room changes constantly. I disagree that no one of peiciple or character will join his administration. There will be naive people who believe they can guide him. They will be both right and wrong. I know I'm also in the minority here but I beleive the SCOTUS will be an important check on him as well. This is the most classically liberal SCOTUS of our modern age. They are not stooges of Trump.

This is my hunch and belief. I may be wrong. I can see how people who have a different philosophical framework than I would disagree.

I absolutely agree on his lack of intellectual faculties. But I worry that the second crop of advisors and his cabinet would be smarter than he is. And you know this time around he's going to pick the cronies he wants. But yeah, your bolded part may save us from his authoritarian wishes.

[USUC]

I absolutely agree on his lack of intellectual faculties. But I worry that the second crop of advisors and his cabinet would be smarter than he is. And you know this time around he's going to pick the cronies he wants. But yeah, your bolded part may save us from his authoritarian wishes.

Bannon was smarter than he is. Miller was smartert than he is. But Bannon didn't make it very long and Miller wasn't as influential as he'd hoped. The problem with staffing an administration is if the person is so inept at their job, it quickly damages the person in charge. The most toxic bomb throwers only have one skill. Trolling. Trolling isn't governing. And Trump is too vain not to be affected by failure. But no doubt failures will stack up quickly for him. I just think his vanity will prevent him from going full bore on his ideas.

I just can't wait for the election to be over so we can move forward with preparing for the damages each will bring. And i pray I'm right if Trump is elected.

[BlueK]

Bannon was smarter than he is. Miller was smartert than he is. But Bannon didn't make it very long and Miller wasn't as influential as he'd hoped. The problem with staffing an administration is if the person is so inept at their job, it quickly damages the person in charge. The most toxic bomb throwers only have one skill. Trolling. Trolling isn't governing. And Trump is too vain not to be affected by failure. But no doubt failures will stack up quickly for him. I just think his vanity will prevent him from going full bore on his ideas.

I just can't wait for the election to be over so we can move forward with preparing for the damages each will bring. And i pray I'm right if Trump is elected.

The one thing that would be very bad for the economy and wouldn't be hard to do is the tariffs. He already did that in his first term through executive order alone. I used to not think it was possible without Congress because tariffs are a tax, but apparently there is an obscure law from the 1940s that says the president can impose a tariff in the name of national security. It's insanely idiotic to apply that to food or any other non-military good, but he got away with it. Since this is in his top two priorities, he'll probably do it quickly as promised and it will devastate the economy.

[USUC]

The one thing that would be very bad for the economy and wouldn't be hard to do is the tariffs. He alresdy did that in his first term through executive order alone. I used to not think it was possible without Congress because tariffs are a tax, but apparently there is an obscure law from the 1940s that says the president can impose a tariff in the name of national security. It's insanely idiotic to apply that to food or any other non-military good, but he got away with it. Since thus is in his top two priorities. He'll probably do it quickly as promised and it will devastate the economy.

This is by far my biggest worry with Trump. The effects of the tarrifs as he has proposed them would be immediately catastrophic. Catastrophic enough that he could not blame anybody else for them. If he happens to go through with them (I think he is sort of bluffing and hoping he can use it as some sort of leverage... against who I haven't the slightest idea), the blowback would sink him.

[frank ryan]

However, I don't beleive Trump has the intellectual faculties, the power of persuasion, or the emotional will to implement his preferred policies. He contradicts his own positions regularly. He is motivated to flattery so those in the room will shower him with praise. And the people in the room changes constantly. I disagree that no one of peiciple or character will join his administration. There will be naive people who believe they can guide him. They will be both right and wrong. I know I'm also in the minority here but I beleive the SCOTUS will be an important check on him as well. This is the most classically liberal SCOTUS of our modern age. They are not stooges of Trump.

This is my hunch and belief. I may be wrong. I can see how people who have a different philosophical framework than I would disagree.

Some of his sketchy advisors have been consistent including Roger Stone, Stephen Miller and Bannon. Bannon hasn't been exiled from camp Trump. Michael Flynn is very in Trump's good graces again and in case we've forgotten he was convicted of being an agent for the Turkish government (the same shit Eric Adams disgustingly did). Flynn proposed kidnapping a legal US Resident and handing him over to Turkey to probably be tortured and murdered. Flynn encouraged Trump to utilize the military to overthrow the election and he is encouraging him to embrace similar tactics.

Trump is an awful person, who is surrounded by awful people.

[falafel]

In decorum? Certainly not a wash. A wash in real world outcomes? Probably. Harris is coy about what she wants to do and Trump can't possibly accomplish (or even believe) a lot of his nonsense. I could certainly be wrong. But I'm not voting for either anyway. I left the presidency blank on my ballot.

Really? You think there will be not much difference in the outcome?

I'm interested in that position.

[frank ryan]

Totally awkward politically moderate conservative Musk declined to allow access to Starlink for Taiwan because his good pal, Putin asked him to. He has also been in regular contact with Vladimir since 2022. Totally normal and absolutely coincidental that Musk has shifted into being so actively Pro-Trump at the same time. There is zero reason for someone with that much access to American secrets and intel to regularly talking with our nation's primary adversary.



Not unlike former president Donald Trump, SpaceX CEO Elon Musk has been "in regular contact" with Russian President Vladimir Putin for years, according to a new report from The Wall Street Journal.

Putin, whom the US blacklisted in 2022, reportedly asked Musk not to deploy SpaceX's satellite internet service Starlink in Taiwan because China's leader Xi Jinping doesn't want it to happen, framing it as a favor.

...

• Musk's relationship with Putin poses a concern to some in the US government because Musk has top-secret security clearance in the US—and Russia is a US-sanctioned entity and national rival. Starlink secured a $1.8 billion classified contract with the US back in 2021, as well, which could be a spy satellite project that's irked Russia.

A Kremlin spokesperson claimed that Musk and Putin have only had one telephone call where they discussed "space as well as current and future technologies." Two years ago, Musk said he had only spoken with Putin once in a 2021 phone call about space.

But Musk has reportedly spoke with Putin multiple times again since. Musk has also reportedly spoken with Russian officials like Putin's first deputy chief of staff, whom the Justice Department has blamed for a rash of Russian disinformation on Musk-owned X.


In May, the US Department of Defense claimed it had stopped Russian Starlink use in Ukraine, but admitted Russia may try new ways to get new dishes or old ones to work again in the future. That month, Russia managed to trigger a widespread Starlink outage in Ukraine that may have been caused by a kind of anti-satellite system.

More recently, a report suggested that Russia may be fitting Starlink dishes on its military drones to attack Ukraine, suggesting the nation found a loophole to get around US restrictions.

https://www.pcmag.com/news/putin-rep...link-in-taiwan

This is a recap of some good reporting by far left rag Wall Street Journal

[falafel]

This is a U.S. government contractor, in "regular contact" with perhaps our biggest foreign adversary. And he's a major (perhaps largest) donor to a presidential candidate. Nothing wrong with any of this, super happy about it all, great "American" Elon.

[Uncle Ted]

Trump is worse than Harris. I’d never vote for Harris except for the fact that Trump is the other nominee that could win, thus I'm voting for Harris. In fact, I’m typing this from the line to go in to early vote.

Id vote for a lot of republicans, probably most republicans over Harris.

Hey, were you at the Kamala rally yesterday... Looked like a hell of a party:

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I bet all those people booing her are christians. Christians should be at the Trump rally!