2024 Presidential Election Thread

[Uncle Ted]

Totally awkward politically moderate conservative Musk declined to allow access to Starlink for Taiwan because his good pal, Putin asked him to. He has also been in regular contact with Vladimir since 2022. Totally normal and absolutely coincidental that Musk has shifted into being so actively Pro-Trump at the same time. There is zero reason for someone with that much access to American secrets and intel to regularly talking with our nation's primary adversary.



Not unlike former president Donald Trump, SpaceX CEO Elon Musk has been "in regular contact" with Russian President Vladimir Putin for years, according to a new report from The Wall Street Journal.

Putin, whom the US blacklisted in 2022, reportedly asked Musk not to deploy SpaceX's satellite internet service Starlink in Taiwan because China's leader Xi Jinping doesn't want it to happen, framing it as a favor.

...

• Musk's relationship with Putin poses a concern to some in the US government because Musk has top-secret security clearance in the US—and Russia is a US-sanctioned entity and national rival. Starlink secured a $1.8 billion classified contract with the US back in 2021, as well, which could be a spy satellite project that's irked Russia.

A Kremlin spokesperson claimed that Musk and Putin have only had one telephone call where they discussed "space as well as current and future technologies." Two years ago, Musk said he had only spoken with Putin once in a 2021 phone call about space.

But Musk has reportedly spoke with Putin multiple times again since. Musk has also reportedly spoken with Russian officials like Putin's first deputy chief of staff, whom the Justice Department has blamed for a rash of Russian disinformation on Musk-owned X.


In May, the US Department of Defense claimed it had stopped Russian Starlink use in Ukraine, but admitted Russia may try new ways to get new dishes or old ones to work again in the future. That month, Russia managed to trigger a widespread Starlink outage in Ukraine that may have been caused by a kind of anti-satellite system.

More recently, a report suggested that Russia may be fitting Starlink dishes on its military drones to attack Ukraine, suggesting the nation found a loophole to get around US restrictions.

https://www.pcmag.com/news/putin-rep...link-in-taiwan

This is a recap of some good reporting by far left rag Wall Street Journal

I read that Boeing is getting out of the space business...

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Hey, Mark Cubin and/or Bill Gates should buy their space division so that evil Musk doesn't take all of mars for himself!

[Uncle Ted]

This is a U.S. government contractor, in "regular contact" with perhaps our biggest foreign adversary. And he's a major (perhaps largest) donor to a presidential candidate. Nothing wrong with any of this, super happy about it all, great "American" Elon.

Yeah, the Harris-Biden administration also sent Putin/Russia almost $300 million too to give American astronauts (and their supplies) rides to the ISS, funding their war with Ukraine... Maybe it would be good just to keep that money in the U.S. and use SpaceX or who ever buys Boeing's junk.

[frank ryan]

Yeah, the Harris-Biden administration also sent Putin/Russia almost $300 million too to give American astronauts (and their supplies) rides to the ISS, funding their war with Ukraine... Maybe it would be good just to keep that money in the U.S. and use SpaceX or who ever buys Boeing's junk.

Ted this doesn't make any sense or add a lot to what is being discussed.

You realize you and Elon are pretty much rooting for North Korea at this point

[Northwestcoug]

Point to USUC: Trump does a lot of fascisty things, but he is not, in the purest sense of the word, a fascist. From Jonah Goldberg:

Fascism, much like communism, is a whole system based on lies. The political scientists don’t call them lies. They use words like “theory” or “ideology.” But the theories and ideologies are wrong because they describe reality wrong. If you’re convinced that bears are repelled by the smell of Cheeto dust, when you put that theory to the test, the story will end with a bear eating an abnormally orange dude screaming, “This makes no sense! It’s like the bears didn’t even read my book!”

Fascism is a system of lies for other reasons. Fascist (and, again, communist) leaders organize and mobilize people around lies. They make up stories about how some group is an existential enemy, and therefore we must crush them before they crush us. They lie about how the economy works, about their own brilliance and mastery. And the lies often work. There are still fewer Jews in the world than there were when Hitler came to power because his lies about Jews led to the deaths of so many of them...

In fascist, communist, and similar societies, truth claims are not settled by arguments, testable facts, and objective standards. They’re settled by power. What is deemed “true” in Vladimir Putin’s Russia is whatever Putin and his henchmen tell you it is.

Now I should say that while it’s true that all fascists lie, it’s hardly the case that all liars are fascists. Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren lie—or, to be more charitable, sincerely say provably untrue things—all of the time. They’re not fascists, though. Politics itself is often about telling lies, half-truths, etc. Any effort to mobilize large numbers of people will skirt with, or fully embrace, arousing passions without a fastidious regard for the truth...

Trump’s relationship with the truth is wholly fascistic, but also wholly detached from the intellectual roots of fascism. I have no doubt that he knows absolutely nothing about philosophy and nearly nothing about history. He doesn’t consult books by fascists or about fascism when he talks about “the enemy within.” He didn’t even know who Erwin Rommel was, never mind that “German generals” repeatedly tried to assassinate Hitler. He just believes that Hitler got to do what he wanted without any external or internal restraint, and therefore concluded that his generals must have been not only as ruthless as Hitler but blindly loyal to him. Loyalty to Trump (and the praise that is a prerequisite for loyalty) is all Trump cares about. That’s it. I am sure that he has no idea what the Führerprinzipwas, but if you explained it to him he’d say, “Yes! That’s what I’m talking about.” That’s why he fawns over strongmen and autocrats and heaps scorn on restraints on his will...

With all of that said, I don’t think it’s particularly helpful to call Trump a fascist. Again, it’s not because I think it’s unfair to him. He unfairly calls people “fascists, communists, and Marxists” almost every day and the people outraged by the use of the F-word against him never say a word. Indeed, I think some of that outrage on Trump’s behalf falls into the category of protesting too much. The sting of truth really stings...

https://thedispatch.com/newsletter/g...e-fascist-lie/

I'm OK with shying away from calling Trump a fascist. But there's no denying that he is the closest thing the country has had to fascism for a while. We've been exceedingly more fortunate than other countries that we haven't faced horrors that seem almost part of human history. But anywhere from a third to a half of the voting electorate either buy Trump's lies wholeheartedly, or perhaps worse, allow them to fester for their own gain. Same goes for the GOP. And now we have a history of 8 years of the constant big L lying ('I am your retribution' talk for everything that ills his followers, including half the country). Trump may be a singular individual in US history whose demagoguery will remain unmatched. But now we're used to it. Is it a safe bet that everything he's said won't linger in the political air after he's gone?

[Northwestcoug]

Regardless of who you are voting for, these words from Vance are applicable:



If your first reaction is to discount any part of this message based on who said it, you are part of the problem.

This is the weekend I remembered to take advantage of the 10/month I throw to the Dispatch so I can still read Nick Cattagio's essays. And reading his last one I was reminded of what you posted. Sure, nice words and sentiments that we should all strive for. But,

In the closing days of a national campaign, with the race a coin-flip, he knew that the last remaining handfuls of undecideds need to believe they’re not doing something irresponsible by reelecting a man whose own former advisers suspect of being a fascist. So “nice J.D.” returned, babbling about friends ‘n stuff and how there are more important things in life than politics. Call him what you like, but don’t ever call him stupid.

But “Nice J.D.” is a fraud. He’s the same guy who spearheaded the smear about Haitian immigrants capturing and eating their neighbors’ pets in Springfield, Ohio—the most demagogic episode of the most demagogic presidential campaign in modern American history. He’s the guy who told an interviewer in 2021 that Trump should ignore adverse Supreme Court rulings in a second term and who, to this day, continues to second-guess Mike Pence for not midwifing Trump’s coup on January 6.

When he’s away from the cameras and crowds of swing voters, he’s prone to saying things like, “I think our people hate the right people.” If you were a friend of Vance’s, what would be the proper response upon discovering that that’s the sort of politics he practices? One would assume that, by definition, J.D. believes those who are worthy of hatred are unworthy of friendship. How does he square “hating the right people” with “healing the divide in this country”?

David Frum was once friendly with Vance, publishing some of his essays online and even encouraging him to write his bestseller, Hillbilly Elegy. He’s since become a critic and scolded him last month for the Springfield debacle. The mystic chords of memory a-quiver, J.D. replied by accusing Frum of being on the same “team” as the two men who tried to assassinate Trump earlier this year. The bonds of affection between him and Frum are, I dare say, broken, Vance’s burbling about not letting politics trump friendship notwithstanding.

[USUC]

Point to USUC: Trump does a lot of fascisty things, but he is not, in the purest sense of the word, a fascist. From Jonah Goldberg:



https://thedispatch.com/newsletter/g...e-fascist-lie/

I'm OK with shying away from calling Trump a fascist. But there's no denying that he is the closest thing the country has had to fascism for a while. We've been exceedingly more fortunate than other countries that we haven't faced horrors that seem almost part of human history. But anywhere from a third to a half of the voting electorate either buy Trump's lies wholeheartedly, or perhaps worse, allow them to fester for their own gain. Same goes for the GOP. And now we have a history of 8 years of the constant big L lying ('I am your retribution' talk for everything that ills his followers, including half the country). Trump may be a singular individual in US history whose demagoguery will remain unmatched. But now we're used to it. Is it a safe bet that everything he's said won't linger in the political air after he's gone?

I agree with Jonah here. I don't think it's wise to emphasize fascist as a strategy in the closing days of the campaign. It exudes desperation. But maybe their internal polling indicates it's worth it.

[Maximus]

Lol

Please lose or just go to Russia

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[YOhio]

I think Harris should go on Rogan. His interview with Trump has over 21M views on YouTube after being up less than 24 hours. That's not counting the likely millions of listens on Spotify. She really doesn't have much to lose and she'll be reaching a huge, largely new audience. He's a fair host and almost always mirrors his guest to make them feel comfortable. It would be good to see her speak a little unfiltered.

[frank ryan]

I think Harris should go on Rogan. His interview with Trump has over 21M views on YouTube after being up less than 24 hours. That's not counting the likely millions of listens on Spotify. She really doesn't have much to lose and she'll be reaching a huge, largely new audience. He's a fair host and almost always mirrors his guest to make them feel comfortable. It would be good to see her speak a little unfiltered.

I wouldn't consider him particularly fair, but he isn't Tucker Carlson or anything. He does a solid job of generally letting his guests speak and length but sometimes his bias can be fairly evident.

I also think Harris should do his show.

It's a no brainer to me. I'd absolutely watch it.

[frank ryan]

Well, the head of NASA wants the poor, misunderstood, moderate awkward cool guy Musk investigated for his contacts with Putin.

No shit that's concerning! It's alarming this was gone undisclosed so long. Props to an editorially-right leaning mainstream media outlet for covering the story



The House Armed Services Committee’s top Democrat called for an investigation Friday into a report that Elon Musk, the billionaire space tycoon who backs former President Donald Trump, has been in regular contact with Russian President Vladimir Putin.

“We should investigate what Elon Musk is up to to make sure that it is not to the detriment of the national security of the United States,” Rep. Adam Smith (D-Wash.), said in an interview, joining a chorus of Democrats including the administrator of NASA who called for checking the report.

...


Sen. Jeanne Shaheen (D-N.H.), a senior member of Senate Foreign Relations Committee and Senate Armed Services Committee, also called for the Pentagon to investigate.

“Elon Musk—who has billions in contracts that support some of our most sensitive military operations—reportedly has an open line to Putin,” Shaheen said in a post. “In the interest of our national security, [the Defense Department] must investigate this and evaluate how it relies on commercial services like Musk’s.”



https://www.politico.com/news/2024/1...gated-00185543

[Uncle Ted]

I think Harris should go on Rogan. His interview with Trump has over 21M views on YouTube after being up less than 24 hours. That's not counting the likely millions of listens on Spotify. She really doesn't have much to lose and she'll be reaching a huge, largely new audience. He's a fair host and almost always mirrors his guest to make them feel comfortable. It would be good to see her speak a little unfiltered.

I wonder if Trump's interview will pass up Bob Lazar's for Rogan's most popular interview:

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Yes, Harris should go on Rogan as well. I have been told that people are actually voting for her so her interview should get some views.

[Uncle Ted]

Well, the head of NASA wants the poor, misunderstood, moderate awkward cool guy Musk investigated for his contacts with Putin.

No shit that's concerning! It's alarming this was gone undisclosed so long. Props to an editorially-right leaning mainstream media outlet for covering the story



The House Armed Services Committee’s top Democrat called for an investigation Friday into a report that Elon Musk, the billionaire space tycoon who backs former President Donald Trump, has been in regular contact with Russian President Vladimir Putin.

“We should investigate what Elon Musk is up to to make sure that it is not to the detriment of the national security of the United States,” Rep. Adam Smith (D-Wash.), said in an interview, joining a chorus of Democrats including the administrator of NASA who called for checking the report.

...


Sen. Jeanne Shaheen (D-N.H.), a senior member of Senate Foreign Relations Committee and Senate Armed Services Committee, also called for the Pentagon to investigate.

“Elon Musk—who has billions in contracts that support some of our most sensitive military operations—reportedly has an open line to Putin,” Shaheen said in a post. “In the interest of our national security, [the Defense Department] must investigate this and evaluate how it relies on commercial services like Musk’s.”



https://www.politico.com/news/2024/1...gated-00185543

Doesn't Musk give Putin's cosmonauts rides to/from the ISS on his SpaceX rockets? Maybe Putin was worried about his cosmonauts' safety.

Or maybe he was pissed off about Musk turning off Starlink near Crimea... Putin should have asked Biden.

Or maybe Putin wants one of those new Tesla Cybertrucks... and has some questions about its durability:

[frank ryan]

I wonder if Trump's interview will pass up Bob Lazar's for Rogan's most popular interview:

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Yes, Harris should go on Rogan as well. I have been told that people are actually voting for her so her interview should get some views.

Bob Lazar is FOS. He has made a career out of bullshitting. So he is similar to Trump.

Edward Snowden is a houseguest of Putin and leaked more information than he needed to.

So yeah, weird brag.

[frank ryan]

Doesn't Musk give Putin's cosmonauts rides to/from the ISS on his SpaceX rockets? Maybe Putin was worried about his cosmonauts' safety.

Or maybe he was pissed off about Musk turning off Starlink near Crimea... Putin should have asked Biden.

Or maybe Putin wants one of those new Tesla Cybertrucks... and has some questions about its durability:

Ted do you not realize Putin is an awful person?

[Uncle Ted]

Bob Lazar is FOS. He has made a career out of bullshitting. So he is similar to Trump.

Yeah, Bob didn't testify in front of congress...

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