2024 Presidential Election Thread

[BlueK]

He's got a point. Racism accusations are thrown out like saltwater taffy at a parade. He's merely commenting on the absurdity and using a delicious beverage to do it.

Silliness. Did he also talk about assembling a massive deportation force? Or that all immigrants are presumed to be murderers and terrorists until proven otherwise?

[Shaka]

Ezra Klein's podcast that dropped Saturday is a thoughtful primer on what Trump/Vance stand for. Klein has a gift and an ethic for articulately and generously explaining the Trump/Vance themes and appeal.

Among other things, Klein, a liberal with whom I share a substantial overlap in values and beliefs, persuasively and articulately describes Vance's conversion to MAGA zealotry as sincere, not wholly opportunistic, and an organic product of his lived experience. (For me, one of the main pleasures of literature is that it transports us into the point of view of persons alien or reprehensible to us and can even engender our spontaneous sympathy for them.)

The Klein podcast is mistitled. It's not much about how the democrats can win. It's mostly his dissection of what the republicans now stand for. What is just remarkable to me, having lived as long as I have, is the way the parties are reversed in their positions on so many key issues.

The Republicans used to favor freer immigration (which they perceived drives down the cost of labor) and the democrats opposed it for the same reason.

The Republicans used to favor agressive interventionist foreign policy and the Democrats, since Vietnam, have been isolationist and skeptical of the US role as the guardian of the world order.

Unions used to be an arm of the Democratic Party, pretty much, now the head of the AFL-CIO speaks at the Republican Convention.

Democrats used to be the ones who aggressively bashed corporations including pharma as greedy profit grubbers and fought for laws that gave consumers rights to class action suits, etc.

Republicans used to favor free trade as a means to growing alliances and reducing the price of consumer goods and increasing profits, and democrats favored protectionism to help the labor class jobs.

All these positions and others have become reversed. Even abortion, the Republicans are trying to moderate their position.

Parties are basically soulless business entities who just want to win.

Klein notes that the never-Trumpers, who were Romney-Republicans, have become even more full-throated and ideologically pure democrats than Klein himself.

His general discussion of the process of conversion and radicalization is very interesting and will resonate with those of us who have seen true blue Mormons swing hard to anti-Mormon, emerging from the agony of psychological dissonance.

If you listen carefully you'll also discern that Klein, who calls himself a "progressive," is subtly critical of the "woke" wing and believes they have damaged the party.

I think he is very much in the Democratic mainstream.

Of course this reversal of positions on issues is a pattern in American history. Republicans are the party of Lincoln, Democrats the party of Civil Rights, now Republicans are trying to appeal to working class voters of color, Nixon signed the EPA into law and a Republican coalition in Congress backed it, now Republicans are appealing to the working classes through hostility to EPA.

I agree with this.

[falafel]

He's got a point. Racism accusations are thrown out like saltwater taffy at a parade. He's merely commenting on the absurdity and using a delicious beverage to do it.

I agree with Shaka on this one. Vance is using hyperbole to a very sympathetic audience, nothing more. I think most would agree that the race card can be way overplayed.

[Uncle Ted]

Ezra Klein's podcast that dropped Saturday is a thoughtful primer on what Trump/Vance stand for. Klein has a gift and an ethic for articulately and generously explaining the Trump/Vance themes and appeal.

Among other things, Klein, a liberal with whom I share a substantial overlap in values and beliefs, persuasively and articulately describes Vance's conversion to MAGA zealotry as sincere, not wholly opportunistic, and an organic product of his lived experience. (For me, one of the main pleasures of literature is that it transports us into the point of view of persons alien or reprehensible to us and can even engender our spontaneous sympathy for them.)

The Klein podcast is mistitled. It's not much about how the democrats can win. It's mostly his dissection of what the republicans now stand for. What is just remarkable to me, having lived as long as I have, is the way the parties are reversed in their positions on so many key issues.

The Republicans used to favor freer immigration (which they perceived drives down the cost of labor) and the democrats opposed it for the same reason.

The Republicans used to favor agressive interventionist foreign policy and the Democrats, since Vietnam, have been isolationist and skeptical of the US role as the guardian of the world order.

Unions used to be an arm of the Democratic Party, pretty much, now the head of the AFL-CIO speaks at the Republican Convention.

Democrats used to be the ones who aggressively bashed corporations including pharma as greedy profit grubbers and fought for laws that gave consumers rights to class action suits, etc.

Republicans used to favor free trade as a means to growing alliances and reducing the price of consumer goods and increasing profits, and democrats favored protectionism to help the labor class jobs.

All these positions and others have become reversed. Even abortion, the Republicans are trying to moderate their position.

Parties are basically soulless business entities who just want to win.

Klein notes that the never-Trumpers, who were Romney-Republicans, have become even more full-throated and ideologically pure democrats than Klein himself.

His general discussion of the process of conversion and radicalization is very interesting and will resonate with those of us who have seen true blue Mormons swing hard to anti-Mormon, emerging from the agony of psychological dissonance.

If you listen carefully you'll also discern that Klein, who calls himself a "progressive," is subtly critical of the "woke" wing and believes they have damaged the party.

I think he is very much in the Democratic mainstream.

Of course this reversal of positions on issues is a pattern in American history. Republicans are the party of Lincoln, Democrats the party of Civil Rights, now Republicans are trying to appeal to working class voters of color, Nixon signed the EPA into law and a Republican coalition in Congress backed it, now Republicans are appealing to the working classes through hostility to EPA.

Some parties are more soulless than others... I might have to start listening to this podcast.

[Uncle Ted]

say what

Embedded Tweet

I drink diet mountain dew too... so I must be racist.

Dumb liberals.

[falafel]

Some parties are more soulless than others...

lol no

[frank ryan]

Mark Kelly, senator from Arizona. Level headed moderate from an important electoral state.

I would like this although his senate seat might be important

[Uncle Ted]

It was all a coup d'état by the Democratic Party...

Top Dems threatened to forcibly remove Biden from office unless he resigned, set him up to fail at Trump debate: Sources

Operatives at the very highest levels of the Democratic Party threatened Joe Biden with forcibly removing him from office unless he stepped down, sources told The Post.

The well-orchestrated “palace coup” to stop the faltering president seeking re-election has been in place for weeks, but stubborn Biden fought against it every step of the way, a source close to the Biden family told The Post Monday.

The insider also made clear the anger, paranoia and frustration Biden displayed as the party elite circled around him and piled on the pressure.

Part of the “elaborate” strategy to remove Biden from the race – as he announced in a shock letter posted on X Sunday – was allowing him to debate Republican candidate Donald Trump last month on live TV in Atlanta.

During the car crash 90-minute debate, Biden appeared confused, slack-jawed and at one point he froze up, with his shocking performance turning the tide against him.

“That debate was a set-up to convince Democrats that he couldn’t run for president,” the family source said Monday.
[...]
Democratic Party insiders have also known for at least two years how Biden was in decline, said the source.

“When I saw him a couple of years ago, it was frightening,” said the source. “He was just repeating slogans and had no idea who I was.”

https://nypost.com/2024/07/22/us-new...s-he-resigned/


And it's not over yet... Kamala is next.

Although Biden immediately endorsed Vice President Kamala Harris as the Democratic candidate for president, the source said Democratic delegates will be strongly encouraged to instead back Arizona senator and former astronaut Mark Kelly for president at the Democratic National Convention in Chicago in August.

Some holdouts have still yet to endorse Harris as Biden’s successor, despite less than a month until the convention and only four months until election day. Most notable among them is former President Barack Obama.

Even Hunter sees the evil in the Democratic Party...

Following the debate, first son Hunter Biden suddenly became more involved in his father’s day-to-day business and insisted upon attending every official and unofficial meeting, the source said.

“Hunter felt he [Joe Biden] was being set up and he was very concerned about his father,” the source said. “These people, these officials were not on Joe’s side.”

Biden’s own staff did not have any forewarning about the bombshell decision to pull out of the race, which was known since at least Tuesday, the source said.

Many were also shocked by the letter posted to Biden’s X account itself, as it was typed on his private letterhead rather than White House notepaper and signed electronically, the source said.

“Everyone was totally shocked,” the source said. “It was pretty telling that Jill Biden tweeted a heart emoji and nothing else.”

[Moliere]

I’m still skeptical that Harris will carry any momentum for longer than a month. She was a horrible primary candidate. Absolutely horrible. Tulsi Gabbard ended her campaign basically by calling out her tenure as AG in California. She can also be saddled with Bidens inflationary tenure and the fact she was his VP during a time when the president had a historically low approval rating. Let’s not kid ourselves. She had a tough row to hoe and I don’t think she can do it….but I hope she eeks out a victory.

[Maximus]

I agree with Shaka on this one. Vance is using hyperbole to a very sympathetic audience, nothing more. I think most would agree that the race card can be way overplayed.

Overplayed on average maybe, is it possible to overplay it on trump though.

[SeattleUte]

I’m still skeptical that Harris will carry any momentum for longer than a month. She was a horrible primary candidate. Absolutely horrible. Tulsi Gabbard ended her campaign basically by calling out her tenure as AG in California. She can also be saddled with Bidens inflationary tenure and the fact she was his VP during a time when the president had a historically low approval rating. Let’s not kid ourselves. She had a tough row to hoe and I don’t think she can do it….but I hope she eeks out a victory.

People keep saying this. But it's a different situation when you're a former vice president and have the party behind you. The prime example of this is Biden. There was no worse primary candidate than Biden before he was vice president. His failings were so spectacular each time you thought his career was totally done. After Nixon lost to Kennedy in the presidential election, he ran for governor in California and lost. Where the party unites behind a candidate, past failures are no indication of future success or failure in politics.

I'm not saying this about you, necessarily, but a lot of the skepticism and antipathy for Harris has been at least subconsciously gender bias, I submit. Democrats have been as guilty of this as anyone, though a lot of explicit ugliness has come from the right wing.

[Uncle Ted]

I’m still skeptical that Harris will carry any momentum for longer than a month. She was a horrible primary candidate. Absolutely horrible. Tulsi Gabbard ended her campaign basically by calling out her tenure as AG in California. She can also be saddled with Bidens inflationary tenure and the fact she was his VP during a time when the president had a historically low approval rating. Let’s not kid ourselves. She had a tough row to hoe and I don’t think she can do it….but I hope she eeks out a victory.

Yeah, I think the democratic party is setting her up for a massive crash and burn so they can easily justify replacing her at the DNC convention. There are some young democrats that are disclosing what is going on behind the scenes and she is going to be ousted just like they did with Grandpa Joe...

Embedded Tweet

Embedded Tweet

[SeattleUte]

Now the Vance pick looks bad. Trump and Vance's appeal is too narrow. Trump needed a centrist and a less angry, crazy convention speech.

They overplayed their hand.

I wonder if it was at all strategic to wait until after the Republican Convention and Trump picking a VP for this to happen.

Since Biden waited so long, this worked out to wait another week.

Trump might have picked a different VP and given a different speech.

Imagine an alternate universe where Trump stops after the first 30 minutes of his speech and picks a centrist as vice president. Possibly a different race.

[Uncle Ted]

Yeah, looks like Harris is the right pick by the Dems... Florida is now looking solid red.

Embedded Tweet

[Bo Diddley]

Now the Vance pick looks bad. Trump and Vance's appeal is too narrow. Trump needed a centrist and a less angry, crazy convention speech.

They overplayed their hand.

I wonder if it was at all strategic to wait until after the Republican Convention and Trump picking a VP for this to happen.

Since Biden waited so long, this worked out to wait another week.

Trump might have picked a different VP and given a different speech.

Imagine an alternate universe where Trump stops after the first 30 minutes of his speech and picks a centrist as vice president. Possibly a different race.

Great observation. I think you're right.