The Mass Shooting Thread

[frank ryan]

Pretty sure the headline is created by an editor, not Pat Bagley.

Yeah, it would the copy editor that does that.

I think the red is meant to indicate their party not blood.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Yeah, it would the copy editor that does that.

I think the red is meant to indicate their party not blood.

Ha. Like that makes a difference.

[frank ryan]

Ha. Like that makes a difference.

?

That's a big difference than if they were intentionally depicted to be bleeding out.

[Jeff Lebowski]

?

That's a big difference than if they were intentionally depicted to be bleeding out.

Frank, you don't need to defend or rationalize literally everything that liberals/democrats do. Especially not garbage like this.

[Moliere]

SL Trib posts cartoon with wanted posters of Utah republicans with subheading "the hole in the head gang".

Unbelievable that this was not stopped by an editor.

Embedded Tweet

Holy crap! Someone should be fired over that.

[frank ryan]

Frank, you don't need to defend or rationalize literally everything that liberals/democrats do. Especially not garbage like this.

I don't think I'm rationalizing when I say that absolutely makes a difference. I don't defend "everything" democrats do.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I don't think I'm rationalizing when I say that absolutely makes a difference. I don't defend "everything" democrats do.

You do realize that Charlie Kirk was shot in the neck, right? At the very least it is grossly tone deaf.

Why on earth are you defending this?

[frank ryan]

You do realize that Charlie Kirk was shot in the neck, right? At the very least it is grossly tone deaf.

Why on earth are you defending this?

I swear you don't read my posts half the time. I'm saying I don't think the red is meant to be blood. That's a lot fucking different from a depiction of bullet wounds, which I don't it was.. That makes a world of difference.

I am not defending a cartoon of politicians being shot, I don't think the cartoon conveyed that.

[Shaka]

I swear you don't read my posts half the time. I'm saying I don't think the red is meant to be blood. That's a lot fucking different from a depiction of bullet wounds, which I don't it was.. That makes a world of difference.

I am not defending a cartoon of politicians being shot, I don't think the cartoon conveyed that.

[Pelado]

I see Frank's point here. The cartoonist may have been using the red scarves around the neck to signify GOP. Not sure why red scarves was what he decided to go with, but the pencil marks around the red lend to the intent of it being apparel rather than blood spurts/stains.

If the editors are the ones who came up with the headline, it reads much different. Bagley was calling them "The Gutless Gang". Having an alternate title of Hole-in-the-Head Gang doesn't really make much sense.

There's a clarification issued by the editors but it doesn't address who came up with that title, maybe to avoid admitting their own culpability.

[Donuthole]

I see Frank's point here. The cartoonist may have been using the red scarves around the neck to signify GOP. Not sure why red scarves was what he decided to go with, but the pencil marks around the red lend to the intent of it being apparel rather than blood spurts/stains.

If the editors are the ones who came up with the headline, it reads much different. Bagley was calling them "The Gutless Gang". Having an alternate title of Hole-in-the-Head Gang doesn't really make much sense.

There's a clarification issued by the editors but it doesn't address who came up with that title, maybe to avoid admitting their own culpability.

It’s a play on the infamous Hole in the Wall gang. An actual Utah gang that had a wanted poster. And yeah, those are clearly bandanas around their necks. Basically it’s saying “the useless gang” as that’s the meaning of the idiom “hold in the head”. But they should have foreseen that the snowflake MAGAts would twist it and take offense. So in that respect, it was a poor choice of words.

[Jeff Lebowski]

It’s a play on the infamous Hole in the Wall gang. An actual Utah gang that had a wanted poster. And yeah, those are clearly bandanas around their necks. Basically it’s saying “the useless gang” as that’s the meaning of the idiom “hold in the head”. But they should have foreseen that the snowflake MAGAts would twist it and take offense. So in that respect, it was a poor choice of words.

"Poor choice of words"? What a ridiculous take.

We are in the middle of an epidemic of political violence and I believe it is the most dangerous threat we face today by a mile because of the polarization in our society and the fact that it could spiral quickly. We had a kid murder the CEO of an insurance company and become a folk hero. We had two assassination attempts on a US presidential candidate, one of which missed by a couple of inches. Then we had one of the most significant political assassinations in modern US history right here in the state of Utah. In this moment, for a major newspaper in the same state to post a political cartoon showing republican elected officials on wanted posters is unconscionable.

The wanted posters alone are insane. But to label it as the “Hole in the Head Gang” is jaw-dropping. For the record, this label was hand-written just above the “WANTED” tag at the top of the cartoon in the original version, so it was a collective blunder by both Bagley and his editor(s). And please don’t give me any of this nuance horseshit that it was simply wordplay on the “Hole in the Rock” name. What difference does that make, given the context? And was the red on the bandanas intentional? None of us can definitively say either way, but that is such a minor detail relative to the broader horrific message that is absurd to insist that it matters or that it changes the message in any significant way.

[LVAllen]

"Poor choice of words"? What a ridiculous take.

We are in the middle of an epidemic of political violence and I believe it is the most dangerous threat we face today by a mile because of the polarization in our society and the fact that it could spiral quickly. We had a kid murder the CEO of an insurance company and become a folk hero. We had two assassination attempts on a US presidential candidate, one of which missed by a couple of inches. Then we had one of the most significant political assassinations in modern US history right here in the state of Utah. In this moment, for a major newspaper in the same state to post a political cartoon showing republican elected officials on wanted posters is unconscionable.

The wanted posters alone are insane. But to label it as the “Hole in the Head Gang” is jaw-dropping. For the record, this label was hand-written just above the “WANTED” tag at the top of the cartoon in the original version, so it was a collective blunder by both Bagley and his editor(s). And please don’t give me any of this nuance horseshit that it was simply wordplay on the “Hole in the Rock” name. What difference does that make, given the context? And was the red on the bandanas intentional? None of us can definitively say either way, but that is such a minor detail relative to the broader horrific message that is absurd to insist that it matters or that it changes the message in any significant way.

Honest question, JL:

Let's say this exact political cartoon, title and all, is published 4 months ago. Does it get any media attention at all? Is there anyone out there accusing Bagley of fomenting violence by accusing the Congressional delegation of abdicating their duties and publishing their office phone numbers? Is there anyone on the right trying to claim classic old-west iconography is a threat if this appears then?

[Omaha 680]

Honest question, JL:

Let's say this exact political cartoon, title and all, is published 4 months ago. Does it get any media attention at all? Is there anyone out there accusing Bagley of fomenting violence by accusing the Congressional delegation of abdicating their duties and publishing their office phone numbers? Is there anyone on the right trying to claim classic old-west iconography is a threat if this appears then?

You didn't ask me, but I'll answer: probably not. But isn't the environment in which we are now operating the whole point of asking both sides to chill the eff out with the rhetoric? Remember when Sarah Palin was accused of fomenting violence for an ad placing crosshairs over congressional districts she wanted to "target" and then later Gabby Giffords, a Congresswoman in one of the targeted districts, was shot? This Bagley cartoon is like that except for it was published after the violence instead of before. So it makes sense and is appropriate that people are scrutinizing it.

We obviously aren't going to get a lot of help from Trump and the worst of his supporters on this effort but it doesn't mean his opponents shouldn't try to bring the temperature down.

[frank ryan]

You didn't ask me, but I'll answer: probably not. But isn't the environment in which we are now operating the whole point of asking both sides to chill the eff out with the rhetoric? Remember when Sarah Palin was accused of fomenting violence for an ad placing crosshairs over congressional districts she wanted to "target" and then later Gabby Giffords, a Congresswoman in one of the targeted districts, was shot? This Bagley cartoon is like that except for it was published after the violence instead of before. So it makes sense and is appropriate that people are scrutinizing it.

We obviously aren't going to get a lot of help from Trump and the worst of his supporters on this effort but it doesn't mean his opponents shouldn't try to bring the temperature down.

At some point it has to come from Trump, Musk and Miller etc. to cool things down. He is chief offender in the deterioration of bipartisanship, moderate tenor, and accelerating division. You had a judge's house set on fire after being the social media target of Trump, and not a word from anyone noteworthy on the right. Not dissimilar from the political assassinations in Minnesota or the attack on Pelosi's husband (ironically, Charlie Kirk tweeted about raising money to get Paul Pelosi's attacker out of jail).

Within the last few days you've had two MAGA influencers with massive audiences call for ICE to use deadly force against protestors. That's a bit more concerning.

I don't think anyone is going to see Bagley's comic and get inspired to attack a disappointing Utah politician.

Anyway, I always appreciate the vibe you bring to the board.