The Mass Shooting Thread

[Jeff Lebowski]

WHAT VIOLENT IMAGERY?!?! WHAT VIOLENT LANGUAGE!?!?

This is exactly my point. You are reading so much into this that isn't there. And then getting outraged about it and demand that others (aka Frank) be outraged too! This is exactly the kind of thing you have griped about in the past, except in the reverse.

Others in this thread think someone should be fired.

The confusing thing is why you feel the need to read violent imagery and language where none exists. Even going so far to conflate "hole in the head" and a red bandana around the neck as some kind of allusion to murdering these people. To even DO that, you'd have to argue that "hole in the head" means we should shoot them in the neck rather than head, like Charlie Kirk was shot. Bagley has been working for the Trib for 45 years, one year longer than I've been alive. I would assume he knows how to intimate that the people should MURDER their representatives rather than just be upset with them for violating their Constitutional oaths.

Wanted posters aren't connected to political violence. They are connected to accountability. There is no "WANTED DEAD OR ALIVE" on the poster.

Like Frank, you are getting hung up on the red bandanas (which are the least egregious part of the cartoon) and then pretending the rest of the language and imagery do not matter.

If you can't see how this is problematic in our current political climate, I don't know what to say. The Trib immediately changed the "hole in the head" wording and apologized, so thankfully there is some sanity in the staff.

You are mischaracterizing my issue with Frank's response so I won't bother with that.

Hilarious that you guys think that people prone to radicalization and political violence are going to carefully process nuance and things like how long Bagley has worked. Oy vey.

[tooblue]

WHAT VIOLENT IMAGERY?!?! WHAT VIOLENT LANGUAGE!?!? Also, convenient of you to cut out of your quote of my post the part where I talk about this NOT being violent imagery and language so that you could then claim people were pushing back with violent imagery and language.

This is exactly my point. You are reading so much into this that isn't there. And then getting outraged about it and demand that others (aka Frank) be outraged too! This is exactly the kind of thing you have griped about in the past, except in the reverse.

Others in this thread think someone should be fired.

The confusing thing is why you feel the need to read violent imagery and language where none exists. Even going so far to conflate "hole in the head" and a red bandana around the neck as some kind of allusion to murdering these people. To even DO that, you'd have to argue that "hole in the head" means we should shoot them in the neck rather than head, like Charlie Kirk was shot. Bagley has been working for the Trib for 45 years, one year longer than I've been alive. I would assume he knows how to intimate that the people should MURDER their representatives rather than just be upset with them for violating their Constitutional oaths.

Wanted posters aren't connected to political violence. They are connected to accountability. There is no "WANTED DEAD OR ALIVE" on the poster.

Two things are true here:

Firstly, editorially speaking this a disaster: there is no excuse for the editorial nature of the cartoon in the context of the current political climate. It's not ignorance, it was editorial stupidity.

Secondly, it is not violent imagery.

[falafel]

Like Frank, you are getting hung up on the red bandanas (which are the least egregious part of the cartoon) and then pretending the rest of the language and imagery do not matter.

If you can't see how this is problematic in our current political climate, I don't know what to say. The Trib immediately changed the "hole in the head" wording and apologized, so thankfully there is some sanity in the staff.

You are mischaracterizing my issue with Frank's response so I won't bother with that.

Hilarious that you guys think that people prone to radicalization and political violence are going to carefully process nuance and things like how long Bagley has worked. Oy vey.

I don't care about the bandanas, others seem to care and suggest they are violent images. You, for one. However, if you are not willing to respond to my critique with any kind of valid opposition (other than "If you can't see how this is problematic in our current political climate, I don't know what to say"). If you want to just say "I am right, you are wrong", that's fine. No need to dress it up. The entire political climate is problematic. If you are going to disqualify speech based on the climate, than "I don't know what to say."

Hilarious that you think that people CANNOT carefully process nuance. You are the guy I feel that argues nuance more than anyone, yet you seem incapable of seeing any nuance here. I guess we all have our blind spots.

Also, FTR, I don't think I even responded to your issue with Frank, let alone "mischaracterized" it. JL, you seem to be sliding dangerously towards the side of disregarding opinions that you don't agree with or understand.

[falafel]

Two things are true here:

Firstly, editorially speaking this a disaster: there is no excuse for the editorial nature of the cartoon in the context of the current political climate. It's not ignorance, it was editorial stupidity.

Ok. I have no input or experience in newspaper publishing. I do find it troubling that you think there is "no place" for a particular viewpoint in American political discourse.

Secondly, it is not violent imagery.

On that point, we agree.

[tooblue]

Ok. I have no input or experience in newspaper publishing. I do find it troubling that you think there is "no place" for a particular viewpoint in American political discourse.



On that point, we agree.

I never stated there is "no place" for a particular viewpoint. I am on record earlier as stating there is no malice in the cartoon, and I see no problem with it being published. If the original headline, regardless who wrote it, was the "hole in the head gang," that is just stupid, and if I owned the Trib I would have to honestly ask if I wanted somebody that stupid on my editorial staff.

[falafel]

I never stated there is "no place" for a particular viewpoint. I am on record earlier as stating there is no malice in the cartoon, and I see no problem with it being published. If the original headline, regardless who wrote it, was the "hole in the head gang," that is just stupid, and if I owned the Trib I would have to honestly ask if I wanted somebody that stupid on my editorial staff.

I apologize for my wording - you said "no excuse for the editorial nature" of the cartoon. Perhaps the "hole in the head gang" was not the best wording. I understand the reference, and I expect that many, if not most, in Bagley's audience would understand the reference. A national audience would not likely understand it. Perhaps that is where the real error lies.

[tooblue]

I apologize for my wording - you said "no excuse for the editorial nature" of the cartoon. Perhaps the "hold in the head gang" was not the best wording. I understand the reference, and I expect that many, if not most, in Bagley's audience would understand the reference. A national audience would not likely understand it. Perhaps that is where the real error lies.

It is a very Utah meta cartoon. I am sure Bagely thought it was funny and didn't consider the outrage it could engender. I agree that the outrage is not merited, but at the same time, the editorial staff should've been smarter. Of course, maybe that's asking a lot of the Trib, so ...

[Jeff Lebowski]

I don't care about the bandanas, others seem to care and suggest they are violent images. You, for one. However, if you are not willing to respond to my critique with any kind of valid opposition (other than "If you can't see how this is problematic in our current political climate, I don't know what to say"). If you want to just say "I am right, you are wrong", that's fine. No need to dress it up. The entire political climate is problematic. If you are going to disqualify speech based on the climate, than "I don't know what to say."

Hilarious that you think that people CANNOT carefully process nuance. You are the guy I feel that argues nuance more than anyone, yet you seem incapable of seeing any nuance here. I guess we all have our blind spots.

I am saying that the type of people PRONE TO political violence (not anyone on this board, duh) are immune to nuance. That is an objective fact.

After the Kirk assassination, I was encouraged with the overall response from major leadership on both sides. Not so encouraged by the rank and file response. Until we get to the point where we are all willing to call out any hint of sympathy for political violence on both sides and ESPECIALLY when it come from our own tribe, expect more violence.

And I have no idea why "If you can't see how this is problematic in our current political climate, I don't know what to say" has you so upset. I genuinely don't know what you expect from me. I thought this was grossly irresponsible by the SL Trib and am frankly surprised that you seem to see zero problem with it. I have beaten this to death and am not sure what else I could possibly say on the matter. That's the point.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I apologize for my wording - you said "no excuse for the editorial nature" of the cartoon. Perhaps the "hole in the head gang" was not the best wording. I understand the reference, and I expect that many, if not most, in Bagley's audience would understand the reference. A national audience would not likely understand it. Perhaps that is where the real error lies.

By the way, Bagley left the USA last summer out of protest to Trump's election and now lives in Portugal.

[Flystripper]

By the way, Bagley left the USA last summer out of protest to Trump's election and now lives in Portugal.

Not sure what that has to do with anything but that sounds lovely. Good for him.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Not sure what that has to do with anything but that sounds lovely. Good for him.

Ha. I meant to respond to a different post. Oops.

Either way, just an interesting tidbit.

[chrisrenrut]

The editors titling was stupid and tone-deaf for today’s climate. No need to rebrand what Bagely had already labeled “The Gutless Gang”.

The cartoon itself is inoffensive from a political violence perspective. It may offend some right wing folks politically.

[falafel]

And I have no idea why "If you can't see how this is problematic in our current political climate, I don't know what to say" has you so upset. I genuinely don't know what you expect from me. I thought this was grossly irresponsible by the SL Trib and am frankly surprised that you seem to see zero problem with it. I have beaten this to death and am not sure what else I could possibly say on the matter. That's the point.

My point is that others can see this issue differently than you (even if slightly), and that is okay. Your point, as I understand it, is that "grossly irresponsible" is the only appropriate response. Indeed, you seem "surprised" that I could feel any other way.

I agree that you have beaten this to death.

[falafel]

By the way, Bagley left the USA last summer out of protest to Trump's election and now lives in Portugal.

Not sure what that has to do with anything but that sounds lovely. Good for him.

Ha! I was thinking of responding, "ok."

[dabrockster]

Surprised this has not gotten more publicity. Small, town, 10 people dead at a school. But again, it is doesn't impact our political narrative or boost numbers for either political party here in America, than it is not worth discussing for politicians.


Shootings at school and home in British Columbia, Canada, leave 10 dead including suspect

VANCOUVER, British Columbia (AP) — A shooting at a school in British Columbia left seven people dead, while two more were found dead at a nearby home, Canadian authorities said Tuesday. A woman who police believe to be the shooter also was killed.

The Royal Canadian Mounted Police said more than 25 people are injured, including two who were airlifted to hospital with life-threatening injuries, after the shooting at Tumbler Ridge Secondary School.

School shootings are rare in Canada.

The town of Tumbler Ridge in the Canadian Rockies is more than 1,000 kilometers (600 miles) north of Vancouver, near the border with Alberta. The provincial government website lists Tumbler Ridge Secondary School as having 175 students from Grades 7 to 12.

https://apnews.com/article/canada-sh...5b81dc78a29d05