Hamas big killed

[Indy Coug]

There was plenty of shameless stuff in the USA following 9/11. It probably got lots of airtime on Al Jazeera.

Those darn Palestinians should be happy being kicked out of their homeland and content to be living in squalor in a former part of Jordan.

That's kind of besides the point, since the point was why the West typically sympathizes with Israel over Palestine.

[byu71]

There was plenty of shameless stuff in the USA following 9/11. It probably got lots of airtime on Al Jazeera.

Those darn Palestinians should be happy being kicked out of their homeland and content to be living in squalor in a former part of Jordan.

OK, let's say they shouldn't be happy. Do you have a solution? Those who sympathize with the Palestinians plight, what are possible solutions?

A friend of mine had an idea that didn't sound too bad. With all the forecloures, we could relocate the population to the US. All the rich Arab countries can buy the land from Israel to pay for the houses here in the US and give them each a $200,000 as starting money. The Jewish people are very good at entrepreneurship and that should be enough help them to become properous members of our society. Also the strong Jewish community in the US will help them.

After that the Muslim countries will love us and I am sure they won't say any bad things about us again.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

I have a client whose brother was one of the Israeli commandos who were involved with rescuing that Air France group of passengers out of Uganda back in the 70s (Operation Entebbe). For those that don't know this story, you need to read up on it.

[RobinFinderson]

What is your definition of murder? Are all murders equal? If so, should all punishment for your definition of murder be equal? If all murders are not equal, where does an assassination sit on the continuum, and how should an assassination be punished?

So you don't support the US trying to assasinate Bin Laden?

War, especially war with a non-state organization, creates complex scenarios that aren't easily categorized. What is Al-Quaeda? Is it illegal to hate America and use anti-American speech to foment a culture of violence against the United States? Is it illegal to train people to make bombs and shoot guns?

In the US we have anti-abortion groups that post doctors' personal information on the internet, and then celebrate when any of these doctors is murdered. Posting the private information is legal free speech, even though it is obviously intended to facilitate murder at the hands of excitable crazies. The celebration (the photos of the murdered abortion doctors are x'ed out, as if they were part of a to-do list) is a form of taking credit for the actions of independent whackos, and the threat of violence against abortion doctors is a significant example of domestic terrorism.

I mention this domestic example because it demonstrates that a government inclined to use assassination as a tool to suppress ideology may be efficient, but where does it stop?

Your questions are good ones, and quite frankly, I don't have a simple answer. I'm inclined to categorically reject all forms of assassination, including predator strikes against Bin Laden, as a matter of principle.

[SloanHater]

Defend it? You keep making the claim it's hurting them. I disputed your claim. I understand why they do it.

Moroni mourned his loss and the Book of Mormon makes no mention of Teancum's actions being wrong; but does mention he was a true friend to liberty.

As for Amalickiah's war against the Nephites being an "ideological" war, I think you need to re-read the Book of Mormon because that is a very inept description.

You are the best. Your rebuttal to my original post is an assertion of understanding.

You're right, ideological was the wrong term to use in describing a war started over a dispute of governance.

[Indy Coug]

You are the best. Your rebuttal to my original post is an assertion of understanding.

You're right, ideological was the wrong term to use in describing a war started over a dispute of governance.

Yeah, "ideological warfare" is a fantastic euphemism for a murderous, megalomaniacal power grab.

[Coach McGuirk]

we're so close to having this figured out. I can almost taste it!

[Maximus]

I'm interested in knowing why Israel gets so much support from folks on here and from America in general. Does it have to do with notions of prophecy being fulfilled or with Israel being the land of god's people and such? Otherwise, I can't understand why Israel's crimes are seen as retaliatory, but Palestine's crimes are seem as aggressive, when a case at least as strong can be made for the opposite being true.

see: Israel lobby

OK, let's say they shouldn't be happy. Do you have a solution? Those who sympathize with the Palestinians plight, what are possible solutions?

A friend of mine had an idea that didn't sound too bad. With all the forecloures, we could relocate the population to the US. All the rich Arab countries can buy the land from Israel to pay for the houses here in the US and give them each a $200,000 as starting money. The Jewish people are very good at entrepreneurship and that should be enough help them to become properous members of our society. Also the strong Jewish community in the US will help them.

After that the Muslim countries will love us and I am sure they won't say any bad things about us again.

Israel has tried everything but.......ending the occupation. Accept the Saudi proposal, get out of west bank gaza, let Palestinians actually have an economy and get food (the horror!), IE have their own state.



Question: What is the difference between a suicide bomber killing 10 civilians and an Israeli air strike killing ten civilians?

One is state sponsored.

Because Palestine is viewed primarily as an instigator and because Israel appears to have made more good faith efforts at arriving at a peace agreement (such as with Egypt and Jordan). People might debate if that perception is accurate, but to deny that is the prevailing perception would be silly.

If Palestine targeted Israeli soldiers all or most of the time instead of civilians in a market or on a bus, they probably would fare better in the realm of public opinion.

Neither side has clean hands.

Well making peace with Egypt and Jordan is a whole lot easier than making peace with a population that wants you to stop the occupation while you (Israel) doesnt want to stop said occupation.

[byu71]

see: Israel lobby



Israel has tried everything but.......ending the occupation. Accept the Saudi proposal, get out of west bank gaza, let Palestinians actually have an economy and get food (the horror!), IE have their own state.



Question: What is the difference between a suicide bomber killing 10 civilians and an Israeli air strike killing ten civilians?

One is state sponsored.



Well making peace with Egypt and Jordan is a whole lot easier than making peace with a population that wants you to stop the occupation while you (Israel) doesnt want to stop said occupation.

Good for the state sponsored response. If Terrorist kill Americans, then I believe in taking out the terrorist and if innocent people get hurt I am sorry, but not so sorry I don't say take out the terrorists.

I do agree with you if you are saying the Israeli lobbyists are too powerful. Nobody stands up and says Israel should back off on something. Hell, they spied on us and we kept giving them aid.

Let em do what they want, but if they don't do what we tell them, take away the aid and screw all the liberal Israeli lobbyists. Why do most Jews vote for democrats, I don't get it.

[RC Vikings]

we're so close to having this figured out. I can almost taste it!

Good one

[Indy Coug]

Well making peace with Egypt and Jordan is a whole lot easier than making peace with a population that wants you to stop the occupation while you (Israel) doesnt want to stop said occupation.

Maybe so, but again we're dealing with PERCEPTION here and no one would honestly say they perceive that the Palestinians are more interested in peace than the Israelis.

[il Padrino Ute]

Good for the state sponsored response. If Terrorist kill Americans, then I believe in taking out the terrorist and if innocent people get hurt I am sorry, but not so sorry I don't say take out the terrorists. I do agree with you if you are saying the Israeli lobbyists are too powerful. Nobody stands up and says Israel should back off on something. Hell, they spied on us and we kept giving them aid. Let em do what they want, but if they don't do what we tell them, take away the aid and screw all the liberal Israeli lobbyists. Why do most Jews vote for democrats, I don't get it.

When your post is combined into one paragraph, it is very grapevinian. Whether that was your intention, I still say 'well done'.

[Maximus]

Good for the state sponsored response. If Terrorist kill Americans, then I believe in taking out the terrorist and if innocent people get hurt I am sorry, but not so sorry I don't say take out the terrorists.

I do agree with you if you are saying the Israeli lobbyists are too powerful. Nobody stands up and says Israel should back off on something. Hell, they spied on us and we kept giving them aid.

Let em do what they want, but if they don't do what we tell them, take away the aid and screw all the liberal Israeli lobbyists. Why do most Jews vote for democrats, I don't get it.

There is a difference between how Israel acts/responds towards Palestinians and just going after terrorists when they strike. The air strike/suicide bomb was a little simplified from my seat, but the fact is Palestinians dying at the hands of Israel is not just collateral damage a lot of the time. From using live bullets versus protesters armed with rocks, to bulldozing the homes of neighbors of suicide bombers, to the blockade of Gaza and the "security wall", Israel has shown it is not interested in treating Palestinians as first class citizens, and the same can be seen in responses to rockets.

Why we still give aid to Israel is beyond me. Tell them to make peace (Israel has not done their part), or no aid. Theydont need it to survive, and I sure dont want my taxes supporting illegal settlements or ethnic cleansing.

[byu71]

When your post is combined into one paragraph, it is very grapevinian. Whether that was your intention, I still say 'well done'.

It is an accident. On days where the market is either up big or down big, I post without any regard to proper format.

grapevine is out of my league and to try and copy him would be asking for eventual embarassment.

[Maximus]

Maybe so, but again we're dealing with PERCEPTION here and no one would honestly say they perceive that the Palestinians are more interested in peace than the Israelis.

Well, if you mean Hamas when you say Palestinians, I would agree. Palestinians in general, versus Israelis, it is debatable. Anyways, that is besides the point. The PA has really done most everything they agreed to in the 1990s. israel has not.