Hamas big killed

[Indy Coug]

You still haven't cited how assassination has helped Israel.

Of course I haven't. I've stated twice in this thread it neither helps nor hurts Israel.

[woot]

I'm interested in knowing why Israel gets so much support from folks on here and from America in general. Does it have to do with notions of prophecy being fulfilled or with Israel being the land of god's people and such? Otherwise, I can't understand why Israel's crimes are seen as retaliatory, but Palestine's crimes are seem as aggressive, when a case at least as strong can be made for the opposite being true.

[TripletDaddy]

I'm interested in knowing why Israel gets so much support from folks on here and from America in general. Does it have to do with notions of prophecy being fulfilled or with Israel being the land of god's people and such? Otherwise, I can't understand why Israel's crimes are seen as retaliatory, but Palestine's crimes are seem as aggressive, when a case at least as strong can be made for the opposite being true.

You have basically summarized the Middle East's problem with the US and A. It is a fair question.

Undermining the issue is that fundamentalist Islamics attack the US and Europe on their own soil, which makes it tough to garner sympathy when Israel kicks the crap out of them.

[Indy Coug]

I'm interested in knowing why Israel gets so much support from folks on here and from America in general. Does it have to do with notions of prophecy being fulfilled or with Israel being the land of god's people and such? Otherwise, I can't understand why Israel's crimes are seen as retaliatory, but Palestine's crimes are seem as aggressive, when a case at least as strong can be made for the opposite being true.

Because Palestine is viewed primarily as an instigator and because Israel appears to have made more good faith efforts at arriving at a peace agreement (such as with Egypt and Jordan). People might debate if that perception is accurate, but to deny that is the prevailing perception would be silly.

If Palestine targeted Israeli soldiers all or most of the time instead of civilians in a market or on a bus, they probably would fare better in the realm of public opinion.

Neither side has clean hands.

[SloanHater]

Of course I haven't. I've stated twice in this thread it neither helps nor hurts Israel.

So there is no point in employing this method, yet you defend it?

As for Teancum, I think the story proves my point. He assassinated one leader only to have that leader's brother take his place. Even after he killed the brother, battles were still fought. Killing individuals only strengthens a movement. The only way you win an ideological war is by winning the hearts of the people.

Perhaps you should re-read the Book of Mormon.

[TripletDaddy]

Because Palestine is viewed primarily as an instigator and because Israel appears to have made more good faith efforts at arriving at a peace agreement (such as with Egypt and Jordan). People might debate if that perception is accurate, but to deny that is the prevailing perception would be silly.

If Palestine targeted Israeli soldiers all or most of the time instead of civilians in a market or on a bus, they probably would fare better in the realm of public opinion.

Neither side has clean hands.

I wonder how much of it is simply that Israel is more friendly towards the West, regardless of efforts made in the Middle East? My guess is that the truth is somewhere in the middle....we care about which countries like us....not always about what those countries do on their own time.

[SloanHater]

I'm interested in knowing why Israel gets so much support from folks on here and from America in general. Does it have to do with notions of prophecy being fulfilled or with Israel being the land of god's people and such? Otherwise, I can't understand why Israel's crimes are seen as retaliatory, but Palestine's crimes are seem as aggressive, when a case at least as strong can be made for the opposite being true.

Not to sound too Mel Gibsony, but I think a large part of American perception of Jews, and our fondness to them, is based on media personalities. Jerry Seinfeld, Steven Spielberg, Adam Sandler, etc., etc.

When you hear the word Jew, these are the names and faces that come to mind.

[Indy Coug]

So there is no point in employing this method, yet you defend it?

Defend it? You keep making the claim it's hurting them. I disputed your claim. I understand why they do it.

As for Teancum, I think the story proves my point. He assassinated one leader only to have his brother take his place. Even after he killed the brother, battles were still fought. Killing individuals only strengthens a movement. The only way you win an ideological war is by winning the hearts of the people.

Perhaps you should re-read the Book of Mormon.

Moroni mourned his loss and the Book of Mormon makes no mention of Teancum's actions being wrong; but does mention he was a true friend to liberty.

As for Amalickiah's war against the Nephites being an "ideological" war, I think you need to re-read the Book of Mormon because that is a very inept description.

[RC Vikings]

I'm interested in knowing why Israel gets so much support from folks on here and from America in general.

I believe it goes back to the love Jews have for Mormons and the work we have done for them in our temples.

[Indy Coug]

You have basically summarized the Middle East's problem with the US and A. It is a fair question.

Undermining the issue is that fundamentalist Islamics attack the US and Europe on their own soil, which makes it tough to garner sympathy when Israel kicks the crap out of them.

When you see video clips of Palestinians "Dancing on the Ceiling" when they heard the news about the 9/11 attacks, that's another strike against winning the hearts and minds of the West.

[TripletDaddy]

When you see video clips of Palestinians "Dancing on the Ceiling" when they heard the news about the 9/11 attacks, that's another strike against winning the hearts and minds of the West.

oh, I have no misconceptions about the Palestinians' utter failure to win the PR war. I remember seeing clips on 9/11 of people dancing in the streets at the news of the towers falling.

Another tactic that I believe does not sit well with Western countries is the use of human shields and other "dishonorable" (to the extent that there is honor in battle) means of waging war. Putting bombs on women and kids, blowing up buses with non-military people, hijacking airplanes filled with people that have nothing to do with the conflict at hand....these are generally viewed as acts of cowardice, not as sympathetic moves towards a noble goal.

Palestine should use some of its money to hire McKinzie or Monitor or some other consulting firm to come in, assess inefficiencies, and come up with a strategic plan.

[Blueintheface]

Poor Hamas. Poor, poor Hamas. Those bastard Israeli's are going to get what's coming to them.

[Jeff Lebowski]

When you see video clips of Palestinians "Dancing on the Ceiling" when they heard the news about the 9/11 attacks, that's another strike against winning the hearts and minds of the West.

I have heard Palestinians claim that those videos were unfair because they highlighted the actions of a few idiots where the majority of the people were not rejoicing.

[Indy Coug]

I have heard Palestinians claim that those videos were unfair because they highlighted the actions of a few idiots where the majority of the people were not rejoicing.

That's entirely possible, but that's what the West saw. Given the West's perception of Palestine as of 9/10/2001, the shameless display on 9/11 certainly didn't seem inconsistent with their public image.

[Jeff Lebowski]

That's entirely possible, but that's what the West saw. Given the West's perception of Palestine as of 9/10/2001, the shameless display on 9/11 certainly didn't seem inconsistent with their public image.

There was plenty of shameless stuff in the USA following 9/11. It probably got lots of airtime on Al Jazeera.

Those darn Palestinians should be happy being kicked out of their homeland and content to be living in squalor in a former part of Jordan.