April 2020 General Conference - Global Pandemic Edition

[LiveCoug]

We were all hoping for a return of Stake Roadshows so the disappointment is understandable.

Man, our roadshows were the best ever. Thanks Michael McClean!

[Sleeping in EQ]

I've seen multiple people criticize the FP and Q12 as being "out of touch" and "insulated from the goings on of the real world" the past few days. My understanding is that these men travel more miles, visit more places on the planet, meet with more people of all ages, races, socio-economic, education, and other backgrounds, see more of governments and nations, discuss more problems, and understand the workings of the world more than 99.999% of other people on the planet.

Can someone explain to me what, exactly, makes them out of touch? Frankly, from my perspective the FP/Q12 seem way more in touch with the goings on of the real world than message board warriors who whine about the messages from the FP/Q12 not penetrating their own personal cocoon of expectations/desires.

Here's where I think the perception of them being out of touch comes from:

They play the "I have the answers" and "I have authority that you must respect" cards with great frequency. Some of this is people constantly looking to them for "the answers," but when a member of the LDS hierarchy is interacting with either faithful church members or through the media, it's inevitably from a position of, "What I'm saying is not just an opinion. I have authority and am a special emissary of Jesus Christ."

Whether they are at the special High Council Meeting for Stake Conference, are speaking at General Conference, or are just holding a press conference, they project these attributes.

The shadow side of these projections is that it can seem like they are poor listeners. The deep shadow side is that they can seem like they might not be listening to God.

Being expected to have answers, and having the faithful constantly deferring to their authority, can actually cultivate poor listening skills. So undoubtedly, some in the LDS hierarchy are poor listeners, and in that sense are out of touch, but that really isn't any different than it is for any position where someone is put on such a pedestal.

[Brian]

I don't know. I was in a meeting with Elder Rasband, and he did a pretty good job of articulating the problems young people face today.

I agree with old_gregg, and I agree with you. They're in an impossible position, I think.

Part of the problem is that there is very little transparency about anything. I guess that's true about any large organization. I'm sure they understand some of the problems, but I'm also sure they get a big dose of their poo not stinking. For years there is nothing all that new from the prophet, and then a type-A gets the job and starts doing stuff. People get excited about a prophet that does prophety things. And then the big buildup for the best conference ever is a new logo and declaration that doesn't seem to shed any new light. Because nobody really knows what's going on behind the scenes, everyone's expectations are all over the map and lots of people are disappointed.

I just wish they would say what I think is *really* going on.
"We love you. Just like you, we're trying our best to figure out life. Just like you we make a lot of mistakes. But that's ok, we all live and hopefully learn. Let's work together and try and help each other get through life the best we can."

[Brian]

I don't know. I was in a meeting with Elder Rasband, and he did a pretty good job of articulating the problems young people face today.

I'm curious now. What did he say?

[Sleeping in EQ]

I agree with old_gregg, and I agree with you. They're in an impossible position, I think.

Part of the problem is that there is very little transparency about anything. I guess that's true about any large organization. I'm sure they understand some of the problems, but I'm also sure they get a big dose of their poo not stinking. For years there is nothing all that new from the prophet, and then a type-A gets the job and starts doing stuff. People get excited about a prophet that does prophety things. And then the big buildup for the best conference ever is a new logo and declaration that doesn't seem to shed any new light. Because nobody really knows what's going on behind the scenes, everyone's expectations are all over the map and lots of people are disappointed.

I just wish they would say what I think is *really* going on.
"We love you. Just like you, we're trying our best to figure out life. Just like you we make a lot of mistakes. But that's ok, we all live and hopefully learn. Let's work together and try and help each other get through life the best we can."

The perceived lack of transparency is also a factor, I think, and especially for those who are less inclined to just defer to authority.

[old_gregg]

So you think if the packaging is right, they will THEN believe in God? Man, God really sucked at packaging when he lost that 1/3 in heaven and all.

i think we could do better.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Something is broken, but it goes well beyond church leaders, or even just our church, or even just churches. It’s Bowling Alone on meth out there.

Agreed.

[Walter Sobchak]

i think we could do better.

Signed,

Uzzah

[Northwestcoug]

The GA's were once youth leaders and bishops. Some of them were type A's, but they undoubtedly cared for the members then (just as they care for them now). A lot of them weren't out of touch when they were local leaders. But it just seems as they rise through the ranks their focus becomes more of enforcing church teachings and doctrine, rather than the real world problems they dealt with as local leaders. I'm not even sure that's a terrible thing organizational-wise. But it does reinforce the optics that they stand apart from the membership. And speaking from a former hero-worshipper, it makes it easier to venerate them too much. And to also become more frustrated when they don't seem to address significant problems, not only doctrinal but real-world ones.

[BigPiney]

My bishop is an asshole, so that doesn't make me feel much better.

[tooblue]

I am trying to understand this notion of being out of touch or outdated? From the same voices we hear that the issues are complex and nuanced, and yet the solutions to potentially solving those issues are black and white. How can black and white solutions solve what otherwise are highly nuanced and complex situations?

What an awful contradiction and presupposition to contemplate. We want leaders that are human, that are in touch with their humanity, but then also expect from them magic; in particular the ability to say a few words and uzzah, it is done, problem solved ... if only they had listened sooner.

If only it were that easy.

Some "thing" isn't broken; people are broken. Wouldn't we do well to understand that this is true of all people—each in their own respective sphere including the brethren? Or, are they exempt from such mercy, not because they say so but because ... we say so?

In one breath several voices here warn against placing church leaders on a pedestal, all while placing them on a completely different and even more untenable pedestal. They are expected to both lead a world wide church and simultaneously be common, or commonly aware of the everyday struggles of the every day individual. Because after all, up on that new pedestal they have been placed, that is their mandate; a mandate that declares their commonness is forgotten and has to be re-learned which is a curiously high bar to clear because it implies they are not human ... but rather uber human?

And what about the sisters of LDS leadership? What is their role in all this discussion about "geriatric old white men" who aren't actually all white, nor are they decrepit. Do the Sisters get a pass because they are forgotten, or worse, because they aren't even considered relevant to the discussion?

Now there is a conundrum.

[Walter Sobchak]

And what about the sisters of LDS leadership?

Doesn't exist. We don't hang portraits of women on the walls of LDS chapels.

[tooblue]

Doesn't exist. We don't hang portraits of women on the walls of LDS chapels.

There are none hanging in the Conference Center or else where on Temple Square and at Church headquarters? Better check that ...

And it's the Brethren that are the problem

[Jeff Lebowski]

My bishop is an asshole, so that doesn't make me feel much better.

What about the prior bishop?

[BigPiney]

What about the prior bishop?

He is not much better.

Actually probably more so now that I think about it. Just in different ways.