April 2020 General Conference - Global Pandemic Edition

[swampfrog]

I am trying to understand this notion of being out of touch or outdated? From the same voices we hear that the issues are complex and nuanced, and yet the solutions to potentially solving those issues are black and white. How can black and white solutions solve what otherwise are highly nuanced and complex situations?

What an awful contradiction and presupposition to contemplate. We want leaders that are human, that are in touch with their humanity, but then also expect from them magic; in particular the ability to say a few words and uzzah, it is done, problem solved ... if only they had listened sooner.

If only it were that easy.

Some "thing" isn't broken; people are broken. Wouldn't we do well to understand that this is true of all people—each in their own respective sphere including the brethren? Or, are they exempt from such mercy, not because they say so but because ... we say so?

In one breath several voices here warn against placing church leaders on a pedestal, all while placing them on a completely different and even more untenable pedestal. They are expected to both lead a world wide church and simultaneously be common, or commonly aware of the everyday struggles of the every day individual. Because after all, up on that new pedestal they have been placed, that is their mandate; a mandate that declares their commonness is forgotten and has to be re-learned which is a curiously high bar to clear because it implies they are not human ... but rather uber human?

I agree with this, it's an impossible situation. Some members need or want them to act as exemplars, but humans are incapable of adequately fulfilling that role. It is also in the nature of man that once placed on a pedestal, even involuntarily, the psyche begins to believe it is warranted and deserved. D&C 121 lays this out as well as anywhere. I also agree with what SIEQ wrote here:

Here's where I think the perception of them being out of touch comes from:

They play the "I have the answers" and "I have authority that you must respect" cards with great frequency. Some of this is people constantly looking to them for "the answers," but when a member of the LDS hierarchy is interacting with either faithful church members or through the media, it's inevitably from a position of, "What I'm saying is not just an opinion. I have authority and am a special emissary of Jesus Christ."

Whether they are at the special High Council Meeting for Stake Conference, are speaking at General Conference, or are just holding a press conference, they project these attributes.

The shadow side of these projections is that it can seem like they are poor listeners. The deep shadow side is that they can seem like they might not be listening to God.

Being expected to have answers, and having the faithful constantly deferring to their authority, can actually cultivate poor listening skills. So undoubtedly, some in the LDS hierarchy are poor listeners, and in that sense are out of touch, but that really isn't any different than it is for any position where someone is put on such a pedestal.

We have every card carrying member confirming the belief that these men are "prophets, seers, and revelators" and they only are authorized to speak for God's church. In order for this to work, the leadership must constantly and repeatedly focus on and exemplify humble imperfection. The scriptures are replete with the prophets showing this characteristic. Peter, Nephi, King Benjamin, etc. All proclaim their unworthiness. It's the needed mitigation to counteract the natural effects of sitting on a pedestal that they must sit on. It's a difficult balance for which I personally forgive failures because I honestly believe they are trying, but perhaps it could be manifest a little more in public.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

i take no offense at your disagreement; we all have different experiences that color our reads of situations. my experience, combined with my preference to attribute bad decisions in this case to sincere concern for but a disconnect with an audience (as opposed to what some might call callousness or even intentional cruelty) guide my conclusion. but, the proof is in the pudding: young people are apathetic or worse. something is broken.

Well said in both posts closetomiddleaged_gregory.

Also, and I know I’m a cynic on this but the China and Dubai temples seem like they will be huge wastes of money that service less than 1000 people a year. I didn’t feel a jolt of revelation or the spirit when they were announced, rather it felt like a moment to show members who may be feeling frustrated that the work might not be seen as progressing boldly, nobly and independent. I am truly happy for those like AA and tooblue who felt these as special or significant spiritual experiences. For me they did not.

[Walter Sobchak]

There are none hanging in the Conference Center or else where on Temple Square and at Church headquarters? Better check that ...

My family doesn't worship in the conference center, does yours?

[Walter Sobchak]

We have every card carrying member confirming the belief that these men are "prophets, seers, and revelators" and they only are authorized to speak for God's church. In order for this to work, the leadership must constantly and repeatedly focus on and exemplify humble imperfection. The scriptures are replete with the prophets showing this characteristic. Peter, Nephi, King Benjamin, etc. All proclaim their unworthiness. It's the needed mitigation to counteract the natural effects of sitting on a pedestal that they must sit on. It's a difficult balance for which I personally forgive failures because I honestly believe they are trying, but perhaps it could be manifest a little more in public.

Like this, a lot. I think that the Church will continue to sound tone deaf to youth the longer they pull stunts like this last Conference, e.g. dedicate an entire conference as "Praise to the Man". Instead, the Church needs to have a come-to-Jesus reckoning that the life of JS followed the arc of David. A vessel of the Lord at the beginning, but a fallen prophet in the end. Repeal 132 for starters. Then let's talk.

Well said in both posts closetomiddleaged_gregory.

Also, and I know I’m a cynic on this but the China and Dubai temples seem like they will be huge wastes of money that service less than 1000 people a year. I didn’t feel a jolt of revelation or the spirit when they were announced, rather it felt like a moment to show members who may be feeling frustrated that the work might not be seen as progressing boldly, nobly and independent. I am truly happy for those like AA and tooblue who felt these as special or significant spiritual experiences. For me they did not.

Amen.

[tooblue]

My family doesn't worship in the conference center, does yours?

The sisters portraits are hanging in our chapel's Relief Society room, and in the Young Women's classroom.

Wow, another black and white solution for a complex and nuanced issue ... uzzah!

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

The sisters portraits are hanging in our chapel's Relief Society room, and in the Young Women's classroom.

Wow, another black and white solution for complex and nuanced issues!

Is this a recent update? I have never seen a portrait of anyone not in the first presidency hanging in any building I’ve ever been in. I know for a fact this is not the case in my building or stake center. To be fair we are no frills church of Jesus Christ of latter-day saintism here as less than half of the electrical outlets in our building have worked for the 18 years I’ve been going to it. The good news is that the light switch in my new Sunday school classroom does work, in the room I had for the last 4 years it was a fun start to each week’s class “will or won’t the lights work today?”

I think it would be a fun contest to ask 100 women and 100 men to have a police sketch artist (preferably not the one from Making a Murderer) make renditions of what the first presidency and the relief society first presidency looks like.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Is this a recent update? I have never seen a portrait of anyone not in the first presidency hanging in any building I’ve ever been in. I know for a fact this is not the case in my building or stake center. To be fair we are no frills church of Jesus Christ of latter-day saintism here as less than half of the electrical outlets in our building have worked for the 18 years I’ve been going to it. The good news is that the light switch in my new Sunday school classroom does work, in the room I had for the last 4 years it was a fun start to each week’s class “will or won’t the lights work today?”

This has been the case at our church as long as I can remember. (portraits of rs pres, not the light switches)

[Northwestcoug]

Like this, a lot. I think that the Church will continue to sound tone deaf to youth the longer they pull stunts like this last Conference, e.g. dedicate an entire conference as "Praise to the Man". Instead, the Church needs to have a come-to-Jesus reckoning that the life of JS followed the arc of David. A vessel of the Lord at the beginning, but a fallen prophet in the end. Repeal 132 for starters. Then let's talk.



Amen.

Now you’re talking!

[tooblue]

Is this a recent update? I have never seen a portrait of anyone not in the first presidency hanging in any building I’ve ever been in. I know for a fact this is not the case in my building or stake center. To be fair we are no frills church of Jesus Christ of latter-day saintism here as less than half of the electrical outlets in our building have worked for the 18 years I’ve been going to it. The good news is that the light switch in my new Sunday school classroom does work, in the room I had for the last 4 years it was a fun start to each week’s class “will or won’t the lights work today?”

I think it would be a fun contest to ask 100 women and 100 men to have a police sketch artist (preferably not the one from Making a Murderer) make renditions of what the first presidency and the relief society first presidency looks like.

The sisters ordered the portraits from Salt Lake and hung them up. And how many people could describe how Elder Uchtdorf looks as well as they could describe Elder Cook?

[All-American]

Renderings of three temples released. Two do not have Angel Moroni statues.

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist...9s8FdOeoN4N4a0

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

Renderings of three temples released. Two do not have Angel Moroni statues.

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist...9s8FdOeoN4N4a0

President Nelson does what no Laminate was able, removing Moroni from the earth.

[All-American]

And how many people could describe how Elder Uchtdorf looks as well as they could describe Elder Cook?

I'm going to go with pretty much everyone.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

I'm going to go with pretty much everyone.

Did tooblue mean who could describe Ucht better than Cook? Yeah that’s everyone who isn’t in Cook’s family.

[Bo Diddley]

President Nelson does what no Laminate was able, removing Moroni from the earth.

[Northwestcoug]

President Nelson does what no Laminate was able, removing Moroni from the earth.