April 2020 General Conference - Global Pandemic Edition

[Paperback Writer]

The GA's were once youth leaders and bishops. Some of them were type A's, but they undoubtedly cared for the members then (just as they care for them now). A lot of them weren't out of touch when they were local leaders. But it just seems as they rise through the ranks their focus becomes more of enforcing church teachings and doctrine, rather than the real world problems they dealt with as local leaders. I'm not even sure that's a terrible thing organizational-wise. But it does reinforce the optics that they stand apart from the membership. And speaking from a former hero-worshipper, it makes it easier to venerate them too much. And to also become more frustrated when they don't seem to address significant problems, not only doctrinal but real-world ones.

Thanks for posting this as it helps me to understand what I see as a transformation of a local person whom I hold in high regard. About 30 years ago, he was my first bishop upon graduating from BYU and starting my career and family. Truly an awesome bishop who cared deeply for his ward members, especially the youth and those perceived as at risk or being marginalized. Always asking for ideas and ways to strengthen and keep people in the fold. As a stake president, he was a little less awesome and seemed more concerned about upholding church policy that was sometimes ignored when he was a bishop. He is now a regional authority and recently gave a talk that was out of the DHO playbook. My wife commented that there was no way he would have given that talk when he was a bishop. Did the man change fundamentally or was he merely upholding his role of enforcing current teachings and doctrine/policy? I suspect the latter.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Guys, I am sympathetic to and agree with many of these wishes for change. But to be upset that the church would put so much focus on the first vision/restoration on the 200-year anniversary of arguably the seminal event in the history of the church is just not rational or realistic.

[Brian]

Guys, I am sympathetic to and agree with many of these wishes for change. But to be upset that the church would put so much focus on the first vision/restoration on the 200-year anniversary of arguably the seminal event in the history of the church is just not rational or realistic.

I think the disappointment is not in the idea, but in the execution. The crowd here is much different than a standard ward, and I'm interested in hearing what a variety of viewpoints thought. Maybe if church ever starts again we'll find out. We're having a video stake council this week, so maybe some perspectives to be learned.

On the otherhand, for many here, GC is usually 2 or 3 great talks, 2 or 3 nails on the chalkboard, and a lot of sleepers. So, probably par for the course this year.

[tooblue]

We have every card carrying member confirming the belief that these men are "prophets, seers, and revelators" and they only are authorized to speak for God's church. In order for this to work, the leadership must constantly and repeatedly focus on and exemplify humble imperfection. The scriptures are replete with the prophets showing this characteristic. Peter, Nephi, King Benjamin, etc. All proclaim their unworthiness. It's the needed mitigation to counteract the natural effects of sitting on a pedestal that they must sit on. It's a difficult balance for which I personally forgive failures because I honestly believe they are trying, but perhaps it could be manifest a little more in public.

Who of the brethren grew up in homes with a single mother, or a father who was not a member? Which of the brethren have lost a spouse and remarried, or have lost adult children and grand children to illness; how about those that have lost a spouse and are now experiencing a terrible loneliness as they wait to join their companion in their eternal rest? How often do the brethren speak of their childhoods, or young adult years, or their failures as surgeons and as young fathers and husbands?

How much more public do you wish them to be with their imperfections? You are exercising a curious selective memory here in support of an idea that frankly is just not tenable.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Who of the brethren grew up in homes with a single mother, or a father who was not a member? Which of the brethren have lost a spouse and remarried, or have lost adult children and grand children to illness; how about those that have lost a spouse and are now experiencing a terrible loneliness as they wait to join their companion in their eternal rest? How often do the brethren speak of their childhoods, or young adult years, or their failures as surgeons and as young fathers and husbands?

How much more public do you wish them to be with their imperfections? You are exercising a curious selective memory here in support of an idea that frankly is just not tenable.

There are two GA's that I know very well. One has an openly gay son and the other has some inactive/struggling kids. Brilliant, compassionate, salt-of-the-earth guys. This stereotype of stiff, out-of-touch bureaucrats is like most stereotypes - pretty much useless.

[Walter Sobchak]

There are two GA's that I know very well. One has an openly gay son and the other has some inactive/struggling kids. Brilliant, compassionate, salt-of-the-earth guys. This stereotype of stiff, out-of-touch bureaucrats is like most stereotypes - pretty much useless.

Come on. As individuals, sure. As a body politic, bureaucratic to a T.

Corporate lackey indeed!

[tooblue]

There are two GA's that I know very well. One has an openly gay son and the other has some inactive/struggling kids. Brilliant, compassionate, salt-of-the-earth guys. This stereotype of stiff, out-of-touch bureaucrats is like most stereotypes - pretty much useless.

I can't believe I forgot to mention the silver wolf who was a refugee ... life isn't as easy as it looks for anyone.

[Brian]

There are two GA's that I know very well. One has an openly gay son and the other has some inactive/struggling kids. Brilliant, compassionate, salt-of-the-earth guys. This stereotype of stiff, out-of-touch bureaucrats is like most stereotypes - pretty much useless.

Stake conference and gen conf are night and day.
What walter said. There's something about the organization effect. Is Sterling McMurrin who's written a lot about the organizational effects on the church??
I don't think there's anything that can be done about it. Organizations want to preserve themselves, and it's a very conservative organization that doesn't want to change in fundamental ways.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Come on. As individuals, sure. As a body politic, bureaucratic to a T.

Corporate lackey indeed!

Vuvuzela indeed!

Weren't we talking about the church leaders being out of touch with the concerns and struggles of common members?

[Jeff Lebowski]

Stake conference and gen conf are night and day.
What walter said. There's something about the organization effect. Is Sterling McMurrin who's written a lot about the organizational effects on the church??
I don't think there's anything that can be done about it. Organizations want to preserve themselves, and it's a very conservative organization that doesn't want to change in fundamental ways.

Agreed, but I think that is a different issue. Organizations tend to be conservative and slow to change for a variety of reasons - especially religious ones. That doesn't mean that church leaders are insulated and ignorant of the struggles and concerns of everyday members.

[MartyFunkhouser]

This is still boring. Stop being boring.

[Walter Sobchak]

Weren't we talking about the church leaders being out of touch with the concerns and struggles of common members?

In part, but as a broader topic of publicizing empty gestures that fall flat because the perception is that there are more pressing issues to address. I have listed a few of these; many other posters have listed a few of these. So if you want to treat this as monolithic rantings of a single person (myself) and dismiss them out of hand... then be my guest.

[Jeff Lebowski]

In part, but as a broader topic of publicizing empty gestures that fall flat because the perception is that there are more pressing issues to address. I have listed a few of these; many other posters have listed a few of these. So if you want to treat this as monolithic rantings of a single person (myself) and dismiss them out of hand... then be my guest.

Sure but I was responding to a specific sub-topic. See my reply to tooblue/swampfrog.

[myboynoah]

There are two GA's that I know very well. One has an openly gay son and the other has some inactive/struggling kids. Brilliant, compassionate, salt-of-the-earth guys. This stereotype of stiff, out-of-touch bureaucrats is like most stereotypes - pretty much useless.

Agreed. My same experience. It is ridiculous to think that they are out of touch with the common issues all families face. They hurt and pine and pray and support their loved ones just like the rest of us.

[myboynoah]

Agreed, but I think that is a different issue. Organizations tend to be conservative and slow to change for a variety of reasons - especially religious ones. That doesn't mean that church leaders are insulated and ignorant of the struggles and concerns of everyday members.

Exactly. They have a worldwide organization to manage with a wide range of needs and concerns.