Whistleblower - Ensign Peak Advisors

[SeattleUte]

I saw last night that this whistleblower and his twin are saying that the church should stop asking members to pay tithing and just pay church expenses from income on investments. Good grief, how can they so completely out of touch with their former religion?

Maybe they should do something like Harvard. No tuition from any household making less than 200k.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Maybe they should do something like Harvard. No tuition from any household making less than 200k.

Does this apply to law school tuition?

[SeattleUte]

Does this apply to law school tuition?

No. Just college. Harvard law graduates should make more than 200k soon enough.

[clackamascoug]

Does this apply to law school tuition?

They're kind of doing it already. My son graduates in April - and will have around $10,000 of law school debt. He got a scholarship - without being much of a scholar - and he'll be the beneficiary of "somebody" paying a lot of money to see him through school. The system is working for our kids - it's just that nobody makes a lot of noise about it.

[Jeff Lebowski]

They're kind of doing it already. My son graduates in April - and will have around $10,000 of law school debt. He got a scholarship - without being much of a scholar - and he'll be the beneficiary of "somebody" paying a lot of money to see him through school. The system is working for our kids - it's just that nobody makes a lot of noise about it.

That’s great.

[Mormon Red Death]

I'm sure they invest very conservatively. Look how they dress and how old they are. They don't eat fancy food, they don't drive fast cars, and they don't engage in personal risky behavior. I'm sure. At least your tithing is safe from profligacy or unreasonable risks.

Of all the things that the church has been criticized for or should be ashamed about, this one is stupid. What kind of a world do people think we live in? Money is life blood for any institution, and the LDS Church isn't just about helping the poor. It's like a nation unto itself. Any institution needs to amass capital to withstand the ages. Even Jesus, if he came today, would have to have a bank account and a 401K.

I get what you are saying but dont you think they should be ashamed of how much the wealth is? I mean I'm all for saving for a rainy day but when your days cash probably goes over 200 YEARS (yes years) that is obscene. Especially for one that has in its mission to care for the poor.

Lets say they have 100 Billion... Let's say that they make 6% on that money a year. Let's also estimate that annual operating expenses for the church is 500 million. If no more revenue was to come in they could keep operations going for 200 years. The daily interest from the 100 billion would pay for the operating expenses of the church in 31 days. You may say that my operating expense is low or what ever but move it to a billion or 2 billion and you are still getting operating expense being 1/3 of the interest from the money. I mean even if its 6 billion in operating expense its break even. Now the leaders say we dont know the whole story but when asked what the story is they say its none of our business.

[SeattleUte]

I get what you are saying but dont you think they should be ashamed of how much the wealth is? I mean I'm all for saving for a rainy day but when your days cash probably goes over 200 YEARS (yes years) that is obscene. Especially for one that has in its mission to care for the poor.

Lets say they have 100 Billion... Let's say that they make 6% on that money a year. Let's also estimate that annual operating expenses for the church is 500 million. If no more revenue was to come in they could keep operations going for 200 years. The daily interest from the 100 billion would pay for the operating expenses of the church in 31 days. You may say that my operating expense is low or what ever but move it to a billion or 2 billion and you are still getting operating expense being 1/3 of the interest from the money. I mean even if its 6 billion in operating expense its break even. Now the leaders say we dont know the whole story but when asked what the story is they say its none of our business.

The Deseret News says they have $32 billion. That's only 80 percent of Harvard's endowment.

[Moliere]

I get what you are saying but dont you think they should be ashamed of how much the wealth is? I mean I'm all for saving for a rainy day but when your days cash probably goes over 200 YEARS (yes years) that is obscene. Especially for one that has in its mission to care for the poor.

Lets say they have 100 Billion... Let's say that they make 6% on that money a year. Let's also estimate that annual operating expenses for the church is 500 million. If no more revenue was to come in they could keep operations going for 200 years. The daily interest from the 100 billion would pay for the operating expenses of the church in 31 days. You may say that my operating expense is low or what ever but move it to a billion or 2 billion and you are still getting operating expense being 1/3 of the interest from the money. I mean even if its 6 billion in operating expense its break even. Now the leaders say we dont know the whole story but when asked what the story is they say its none of our business.

Your operating expenses estimates have to be severely low and by a lot. No one outside the church accounting dept and leaders have the numbers but with as many buildings and temples the church owns and programs the church runs its got to be a hefty amount.

While I personally believe the church lacks faith in accumulating its wealth (don’t give me the Joseph if Egypt analogy because I don’t think it’s apt), which is my opinion and I’m open to it being wrong, I also think the church priorities it’s charity and humanitarian aid in the right way. I don’t want the church building boards of homeless shelters and soup kitchens. Those aren’t needed from the church as they are already provided by governments and other non profits. The church is right to focus where it can be most helpful, which is in education and provident living training. Pathways and the Perpetual Education Fund have the ability to lift more people out of poverty than any amount of shelters ever could.

[Mormon Red Death]

Your operating expenses estimates have to be severely low and by a lot. No one outside the church accounting dept and leaders have the numbers but with as many buildings and temples the church owns and programs the church runs its got to be a hefty amount.

While I personally believe the church lacks faith in accumulating its wealth (don’t give me the Joseph if Egypt analogy because I don’t think it’s apt), which is my opinion and I’m open to it being wrong, I also think the church priorities it’s charity and humanitarian aid in the right way. I don’t want the church building boards of homeless shelters and soup kitchens. Those aren’t needed from the church as they are already provided by governments and other non profits. The church is right to focus where it can be most helpful, which is in education and provident living training. Pathways and the Perpetual Education Fund have the ability to lift more people out of poverty than any amount of shelters ever could.

Ok multiply my estimate by 10. That's still a days cash of 20 years or if its 32 billion its 6 years. its still obscene.

[MartyFunkhouser]

Yeah for sure. I think the primary motivation of City Creek was to revitalize the temple square area. No doubt about it.

Wow, we agree on something related to the LDS church. That is crazy.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I guess I will never understand how building a cash reserve is "obscene". Then again, I am kind of a hoarder myself by nature.

[MartyFunkhouser]

I guess I will never understand how building a cash reserve is "obscene". Then again, I am kind of a hoarder myself by nature.

We agree again. I don't see anything inherently wrong about a cash reserve. I think reasonable people can disagree about whether or not it is the right call, but I not think it is "obscene" by any means.

[tooblue]

Ok multiply my estimate by 10. That's still a days cash of 20 years or if its 32 billion its 6 years. its still obscene.

For someone who works for health insurance companies and has stated "no margin, no mission" your criticism is curious.

[Mormon Red Death]

I guess I will never understand how building a cash reserve is "obscene". Then again, I am kind of a hoarder myself by nature.

Having a cash reserve is definitely prudent. I think everyone can agree to that. Its the size of the reserve that I find obscene especially when you take into light their mission and what they expect of their members. This isnt to say that they don't do any charitable work. They certainly do. I'm just saying how much is enough to have saved?

[Jeff Lebowski]

Having a cash reserve is definitely prudent. I think everyone can agree to that. Its the size of the reserve that I find obscene especially when you take into light their mission and what they expect of their members. This isnt to say that they don't do any charitable work. They certainly do. I'm just saying how much is enough to have saved?

Well, you are on record that even a 6-year reserve is obscene. I totally disagree there.

$100B seems excessive, but I wouldn't characterize it as obscene or immoral. Spending it on private jets, mansions, etc would be immoral. Saving for the future? Come on.