The Church

[BigPiney]

David O McKay Office Journal Excerpts
1932-1961


http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=ddg8vq2m_134hfh3ssg4

That is really intersting, thanks.

I thought this one pertained to something discussed a a while ago:

Second Anointings


June 12, 1956: Pres. Joseph Fielding Smith telephoned about second anointings for some of the brethren. I told him to send the forms and we would take care of this at the next meeting of the Council.

[BigPiney]

Mormon Doctrine

Jan 8, 1960

The First Presidency held a meeting. We decided that Bruce R. McConkie's book, "Mormon Doctrine" recently published by Bookcraft Company must not be re-published, as it is full of errors and misstatements, and it is most unfortunate that it has received such wide circulation.

[JohnnyLingo]

CUF Rule 7: The longer a thread in The Foyer, the greater the probability it becomes another blacks and the priesthood discusssion.

[falafel]

Mormon Doctrine

Lol, and yet many still quote from this tome.

Edit: many still quote from the crazy sections of this tome.

[Jeff Lebowski]

CUF Rule 7: The longer a thread in The Foyer, the greater the probability it becomes another blacks and the priesthood discusssion.

That's funny. And quite true.

[LA Ute]

Lol, and yet many still quote from this tome.

Edit: many still quote from the crazy sections of this tome.

I don;t quote from it, but it's important to remmeber that he did revise it (under pressure). So the later versions are more reliable.

[LA Ute]

CUF Rule 7: The longer a thread in The Foyer, the greater the probability it becomes another blacks and the priesthood discusssion.

I think that's because I wrote the definitive post on the "church-gospel" dichotomy and, all opposing views having been thrust down, everyone had to move on to something else.

[All-American]

CUF Rule 7: The longer a thread in The Foyer, the greater the probability it becomes another blacks and the priesthood discusssion.

Um . . . your first post in this thread:

Recent discussions on CUF have me thinking about the relationship between the Church and God. Plenty of individuals here take issue with things the Church does or says (Family Proclamation, blacks and the priesthood, etc. etc. etc. etc.). Yet no one rails against God, not even SU.

I'm just wondering how everyone (this does not include SU) deals with the disconnect of believing the Church is God's church, yet disagreeing so intensely with what it does.

Because if God is the one calling the shots on said troubling aspects of the Church, then your argument is with Him, right?

And on the other hand, if God is not calling the shots, at what point is the Church going rogue and just making stuff up? When do you reach the point of Jarid in Cedar and just leave?

[byu71]

Mormon Doctrine

I don't understand the "recent publichsed" part. I will admit it was a long, long time ago, but as I remember it that book was the authority on church doctrine for years. If someone had a question, they were referred to Mormon Doctrine. It is too bad about the mistatements because I am sure there is a lot of good stuff in there.

I remember as a youth McConkie seemed like a very cold distant person. Quite opposite of President McKay who even though I wasn't a straight arrow, i loved and respected the man and would have wanted to be in his company.

[byu71]

Um . . . your first post in this thread:

Being able to quote someone's previous post ought to be outlawed.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

Here's a quote from Sterling McMurrin during an interview with someone named Jack Newell back in the early 90s. Basically Harold B. Lee and Joseph Fielding Smith were trying to get McMurrin excommunicated. McMurrin's bishop started interviewing him and asked him who should be called as witnesses against him. McMurrin replies that Joseph Fielding Smith should be called (and McMurrin didn't know that Smith was behind the potential excommunication). This was all happening around 1954.

Apparently Pres. McKay caught wind of what was going on and called McMurrin to set up a meeting.

Here's McMurrin's account of the meeting:

President McKay started by saying, "What is it that a man is not ... " (Sterling interrupts his own story to say to Jack), "These are his exact words." "...What is it that a man is not allowed to believe? or be asked out of this church? Is it evolution?" Now nothing had been said in connection with my case about evolution, but he brought it up. (Jack murmurs with an understanding nod of the head to Sterling.) He said, "Is it evolution? I hope not, because I believe in evolution." Then he went to two or three other things. He said, "Is it something else? I hope not, because I believe in that."

I said, "Well, I will tell you something, President MacKay." He was making *me* look so good. I was feeling guilty as the devil, you know. And I still have guilt feelings about this. I said, "President MacKay, I think I caused some trouble in my ward. The teacher was saying that we believe that the negroes..." (This was before the revelation of course.) "...we believe that the negroes are cursed because of the curse of Cain. That is why they can't hold the preisthood." And I just said, I told them that I didn't want to argue the case, but I wanted them to know that I didn't believe that. And President MacKay said, "Well, I'm glad you said that, because I don't believe it either." And he said, "That was never a doctrine of this church. It is not a doctrine of this church and it never will be a doctrine of this church." He said, all it is, is we believe that there is scriptural precedent, these are his exact words "scriptural precedent". I knew he was referring to the Pearl of Great Price item that the negroes should not now be given the priesthood. Now he said, "That is a practice and it is a practice that is going to be changed." Now this was back in 1954. He said, "It is a practice that is going to be changed and it is not a doctrine of the church." And I said, "Well, now President MacKay, couldn't you make the statement that you just made to me in conference? Or put it on the front page of the Deseret News with the lines on it, you know, like they used to do sometimes with the statements from the First Presidency?" I said, "There are 1,000's of people in the church that believe that is a doctrine of the church. Now couldn't you make that statement in conference?" He sat there and with a kind of a benign smile you know, and I thought, there is such a thing as pushing the prophets a little too far. So I didn't say anymore. And he was thoughtful. And he said, "Well, all I can do is say that that is not a doctrine of the church, that it is only a practice and that it is going to be changed."

Well, we were sitting closer than you and I are and he reached over and he would grab me by the knee, you know (at this point Sterling moved to get closer to Jack. Jack responded and moved closer to Sterling. Sterling took his own hand and grabbed his own knee and tightened his fingers and said), I can still feel it. He had very strong hands. And on the matter of the trial. He didn't mention trial. He said, "They can't do this to you. They can not do this to you." And I said, "Well, now President MacKay, you know more than I know about what they can do." But I said, "It looks like that is what they are going to do." "Well," he said, "if they bring you up for excommunication from the church, I'll be there as the first witness on your behalf." "Well," I said, "I couldn't ask for a better witness."

Well, anyway, I don't know what happened about that, Jack, but I never heard anymore about the trial.

End Quote

[JohnnyLingo]

Um . . . your first post in this thread:

Fair point. I will strenuously avoid mentioning, even in passing, said aspect of the Church is any of my posts from now on.

[falafel]

Fair point. I will strenuously avoid mentioning, even in passing, said aspect of the Church is any of my posts from now on.

There's that damn smiley again!

[SoCalCoug]

There's that damn smiley again!

[falafel]

lol, where did you get that?