"Hold my root beer" - the Russell M. Nelson thread

[Jeff Lebowski]

really good

Yeah, that was great. I found this part really interesting:

As Romney was trying to become the first Mormon president, The Book of Mormon musical was selling out on Broadway. Co-written by South Park’s creators, Matt Stone and Trey Parker, the show skewered Mormonism with gleeful profanity and depicted its adherents as simpletons. My initial reaction, after listening to the soundtrack, was exasperation that this was how affluent theatergoers were being introduced to my faith. But I also felt compelled to be a good sport—and I wasn’t alone. When Romney was asked about the show, he said he’d love to see it: “It’s a Tony-award winner, big phenomenon!” And the Church itself took out ads in the playbill that read, “You’ve seen the play. Now read the book.” (The show’s creators had apparently anticipated something like this: Stone would later recount that when friends asked if he was concerned about Mormons protesting, he said, “Trust us, they’re going to be cool.”)

I remember being delighted by the Church’s response. Such savvy PR! Such a good-natured gesture! See, everyone? We can take a joke! But then I met a theater critic in New York who had recently seen the musical. He marveled at how the show got away with being so ruthless toward a minority religion without any meaningful backlash. I tried to cast this as a testament to Mormon niceness. But the critic was unconvinced. “No,” he replied. “It’s because your people have absolutely no cultural cachet.”

Somehow, it wasn’t until that moment that I understood the source of all our inexhaustible niceness. It was a coping mechanism, born of a pulsing, sweaty desperation to be liked that I suddenly found humiliating.

I have never been comfortable with the BOM musical. I think this critic is right.

EDIT: I left off the last paragraph. In the quote now.

[old_gregg]

Wonderful article by McKay Coppins on todays place in America for Mormons.



https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...ligion/617263/

really good

[YOhio]

Wonderful article by McKay Coppins on todays place in America for Mormons.

Over the next hour, Nelson preaches a gospel of silver linings. When I ask him about the lockdowns that have forced churches to close, he muses that homes can be “sanctuaries of faith.” When I mention the physical ravages of the virus, he marvels at the human body’s miraculous “defense mechanisms.” Reciting a passage from the Book of Mormon—“Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy”—he offers a reminder that feels like a call to repentance: “There can be joy in the saddest of times.”

There is something classically Mormon about this aversion to wallowing. When adversity strikes, my people tend to respond with can-do aphorisms and rolled-up sleeves; with an unrelenting helpfulness that can border on caricature. (Early in the pandemic, when Nelson ordered the Church to suspend all worship services worldwide and start donating its stockpiles of food and medical equipment, he chalked it up to a desire to be “good citizens and good neighbors.”) This onslaught of earnest optimism can be grating to some. “There’s always a Mormon around when you don’t want one,” David Foster Wallace once wrote, “trying your patience with unsolicited kindness.” But it has served the faith well.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/01/the-most-american-religion/617263/

[MartyFunkhouser]

Tattoos #GiveThanks

[MartyFunkhouser]

No fault divorce #GiveThanks

[SCcoug]

I'm watching on Youtube. I don't remember them enabling chat before. #GiveThanks

[YOhio]

President Nelson is doing church stuff today so we don't have to do it on Sunday. Love him so much!

[swampfrog]

The problem is what I call the "Casual American Ritualism" that pervades the church. Most other religions on the planet expose their adherents to visually rich religious clothing and dress conventions as a part of highly orchestrated ceremonial, ritualistic worship practices.

The average member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, especially children, have only ever experienced the sacrament and baptism ordinances (rituals). Teens are at least able to participate in proxy baptism, but the temple fonts are visually unremarkable, and the temple workers whom they meet there are dressed in all white.

In relation to religious clothing, seeing their father dressed in khaki pants, a blue blazer and sporting a yellow power tie is as flashy a religious dress as they will ever encounter.

Millennials don't have an issue with the content, or the narrative ... they struggle with the ceremonial and ritualistic nature of it all, because it seemingly comes out of left field.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/religious-dress

I think I've made similar points here before. Our Sunday liturgy is significantly different than our temple liturgy, and then we "ask" members to keep mostly quiet about the temple's. Where can I get a church-sanctioned in-depth treatise on the symbolism of temple clothing? Contrast that with what is available for Catholicism or Judaism. Maybe they exist and I haven't seen them--published through official church channels.

Something like this.

[old_gregg]

Lol. Leave it to tooblue to blame the US of A for the Church's lack of flamboyance. If only God were less of a 'Murica homer, maybe we'd have some day-to-day pomp and circumstance, yaknow?

[tooblue]

Lol. Leave it to tooblue to blame the US of A for the Church's lack of flamboyance. If only God were less of a 'Murica homer, maybe we'd have some day-to-day pomp and circumstance, yaknow?

Good gravy, are you just a little bit sensitive? To be more precise, perhaps it should be "Casual North American Ritualism." But that poses some challenges, because Mexico, among other countries not typically considered a part of North America are in fact included as a part of North America, so ...

[Donuthole]

The problem is what I call the "Casual American Ritualism" that pervades the church. Most other religions on the planet expose their adherents to visually rich religious clothing and dress conventions as a part of highly orchestrated ceremonial, ritualistic worship practices.

The average member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, especially children, have only ever experienced the sacrament and baptism ordinances (rituals). Teens are at least able to participate in proxy baptism, but the temple fonts are visually unremarkable, and the temple workers whom they meet there are dressed in all white.

In relation to religious clothing, seeing their father dressed in khaki pants, a blue blazer and sporting a yellow power tie is as flashy a religious dress as they will ever encounter.

Millennials don't have an issue with the content, or the narrative ... they struggle with the ceremonial and ritualistic nature of it all, because it seemingly comes out of left field.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/religious-dress

Lol. Leave it to tooblue to blame the US of A for the Church's lack of flamboyance. If only God were less of a 'Murica homer, maybe we'd have some day-to-day pomp and circumstance, yaknow?

[tooblue]

It's past time for the cultural prohibition to be actively repealed. It's counterproductive to allow people to first encounter all of the information on the internet.



I do the same with regard to temple preparation. When my oldest was going through, the official ward teacher asked the bishop if it was OK to play the church produced video on temple clothing.

After every lesson he taught, we would go home and have another lesson with none of the detail omitted.

The hugging in the celestial room still occurred however.

She still hated it.

Prediction: The literal interpretation of Adam and Eve will continue to cause decline in temple ordinance popularity.

The problem is what I call the "Casual American Ritualism" that pervades the church. Most other religions on the planet expose their adherents to visually rich religious clothing and dress conventions as a part of highly orchestrated ceremonial, ritualistic worship practices.

The average member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, especially children, have only ever experienced the sacrament and baptism ordinances (rituals). Teens are at least able to participate in proxy baptism, but the temple fonts are visually unremarkable, and the temple workers whom they meet there are dressed in all white.

In relation to religious clothing, seeing their father dressed in khaki pants, a blue blazer and sporting a yellow power tie is as flashy a religious dress as they will ever encounter.

Millennials don't have an issue with the content, or the narrative ... they struggle with the ceremonial and ritualistic nature of it all, because it seemingly comes out of left field.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/religious-dress

[swampfrog]

I just re-read about how Millenials react to the temple ceremony. One of the top 100 threads ever on this Board.

I had a thought- there have been many many changes to the temple ordinances, involving what you wear, what you say, what you do, how long it takes, etc. etc. And all of these changes seem to be in one direction: less controversial, less shocking, less alienating, more acceptable. Is it time to remove the prohibition against talking about it?

It's past time for the cultural prohibition to be actively repealed. It's counterproductive to allow people to first encounter all of the information on the internet.

I'm not aware of any prohibition against talking about the temple ordinances. I don't reveal what I've covenanted not to reveal, but aside from that in our family, especially one of our kids is preparing or the endowment, we discuss the temple ordinances in what I feel is pretty good detail.

I have a missionary son receiving his endowment next Wednesday. They said he is allowed to have 16 guests - wow!. When our kids go through the temple for the first time, there is me and Mrs. Meanie, and maybe my parents if they happen to be in town. That's it. We don't have a big huge family reunion in the celestial room.

I do the same with regard to temple preparation. When my oldest was going through, the official ward teacher asked the bishop if it was OK to play the church produced video on temple clothing.

After every lesson he taught, we would go home and have another lesson with none of the detail omitted.

The hugging in the celestial room still occurred however.

She still hated it.

Prediction: The literal interpretation of Adam and Eve will continue to cause decline in temple ordinance popularity.

[BigFatMeanie]

I just re-read about how Millenials react to the temple ceremony. One of the top 100 threads ever on this Board.

I had a thought- there have been many many changes to the temple ordinances, involving what you wear, what you say, what you do, how long it takes, etc. etc. And all of these changes seem to be in one direction: less controversial, less shocking, less alienating, more acceptable. Is it time to remove the prohibition against talking about it?

I'm not aware of any prohibition against talking about the temple ordinances. I don't reveal what I've covenanted not to reveal, but aside from that in our family, especially one of our kids is preparing or the endowment, we discuss the temple ordinances in what I feel is pretty good detail.

I have a missionary son receiving his endowment next Wednesday. They said he is allowed to have 16 guests - wow!. When our kids go through the temple for the first time, there is me and Mrs. Meanie, and maybe my parents if they happen to be in town. That's it. We don't have a big huge family reunion in the celestial room.

[Katy Lied]

I just re-read about how Millenials react to the temple ceremony. One of the top 100 threads ever on this Board.

I had a thought- there have been many many changes to the temple ordinances, involving what you wear, what you say, what you do, how long it takes, etc. etc. And all of these changes seem to be in one direction: less controversial, less shocking, less alienating, more acceptable. Is it time to remove the prohibition against talking about it?