Elderbednarophobia

[clackamascoug]

Tell me what the evidence is for multiple dimensions?

Scientists care about evidence--not superstition.

Mathematical models / predictions do not constitute evidence.

That said, it may be possible or even likely that there are multiple dimensions. But none of this implies or even remotely suggests the existence of a supreme being or anything supernatural at all.

If you look through the Religious Lense, there's plenty of evidence as to the Nature of God, but if you're looking through the Science Lense, God will fade into the Dark Matter.

Here's the deal - You're in complete control of your destiny, and you seem like a smart guy so I don't understand why you don't see what less intelligent people like me see. It's a numbers game, if there is no God, then what you do in this life has no eternal consequences. If that's the case, you're already doing 80% of the heavy lifting of being a "good human being" by living in accordance with societal mores. That extra 20% isn't hard, (you've actually done it all your life) and "just in case" there is a God and you lived up to God's words and kept covenants you've already made... you'll end up in the SEC Division of Heaven, not worrying about the Mountain West Conference and a mid winters BB game in Spokane. If there is no God then it's all fade to black. Your proclamated path leads you nowhere, even if there is a somewhere on the otherside. You're tanking your season for a draft pick that you'll never get to make.

The only thing I see holding you back and submitting your will to greatest probable statistical outcome is pride.

You might find this interesting.

[TripletDaddy]

I like Bednar's perspective of viewing scientific things through the lens (sp?)(Vandelay, we need a ruling) of the gospel. My views on multidimensional probability are only viewed through a Gospel lense. Science now claims that multiple dimensions are a fact as true as evolution, or gravity, yet many are hesitant to embrace the science because it moves their cheese too far. Years ago when I considered multiple dimensions of reality, I looked at it in a Gospel context and wondered how it fit in the the Gospel of Jesus Christ paradigm, and the pieces started falling into place. World's without end, Infinite Atonement, Singular Crucifixion applicable Universally, Omnipresence, Omnipotence, Omniscience, Sin, Repentance, Plurality of Marriage, and the list goes on... Looking at science through the lense of the Gospel of Jesus Christ does not dilute science, it enhances it because it gives purpose to the wonderment of God's creations.

Statements like Sooners are essential to my bell curve salvation. Keep 'em coming!

Not sure if it helps your salvation any further, but I think you are a lunatic, the crazy uncle that makes you cringe at family gatherings and sacrament meetings, but who is also nice

[Jeff Lebowski]

I am afraid of Clack.

[clackamascoug]

If I'm this bad at 55, imagine how bad I'll be when I'm in my 70's. I think I'll have to be put down for humanitarian purposes.

[SoonerCoug]

If you look through the Religious Lense, there's plenty of evidence as to the Nature of God, but if you're looking through the Science Lense, God will fade into the Dark Matter.

Here's the deal - You're in complete control of your destiny, and you seem like a smart guy so I don't understand why you don't see what less intelligent people like me see. It's a numbers game, if there is no God, then what you do in this life has no eternal consequences. If that's the case, you're already doing 80% of the heavy lifting of being a "good human being" by living in accordance with societal mores. That extra 20% isn't hard, (you've actually done it all your life) and "just in case" there is a God and you lived up to God's words and kept covenants you've already made... you'll end up in the SEC Division of Heaven, not worrying about the Mountain West Conference and a mid winters BB game in Spokane. If there is no God then it's all fade to black. Your proclamated path leads you nowhere, even if there is a somewhere on the otherside. You're tanking your season for a draft pick that you'll never get to make.

The only thing I see holding you back and submitting your will to greatest probable statistical outcome is pride.

You might find this interesting.

Are you suggesting that "just in case there is a God" I should participate in and support a church that has:

1) Actively fought to prevent civil rights for gays
2) Historically fought against civil rights for blacks and equal rights for women while simultaneously promoting racist and sexist policies?
3) Excommunicated intelligent people who dare to persistently ask tough questions?

I think I could make a better argument to abandon all the bad things Mormonism while embracing the good things--or even better--live morally outside of an immoral institution--just in case there is a God.


Just in case there is a God, I think I probably shouldn't participate in or provide money to a group engaged in this sort of behavior. But that's just the way I look at things.


Lastly--why is God a statistical likelihood to you??? That makes zero sense. The probability of God existing is no greater or less than the probability of a unicorn walking down your street. There is absolutely zero evidence for it.

[clackamascoug]

I am afraid of Clack.

[YOhio]

Are you suggesting that "just in case there is a God" I should participate in and support a church that has:

1) Actively fought to prevent civil rights for gays
2) Historically fought against civil rights for blacks and equal rights for women while simultaneously promoting racist and sexist policies?
3) Excommunicated intelligent people who dare to persistently ask tough questions?

I think I could make a better argument to abandon all the bad things Mormonism while embracing the good things--or even better--live morally outside of an immoral institution--just in case there is a God.


Just in case there is a God, I think I probably shouldn't participate in or provide money to a group engaged in this sort of behavior. But that's just the way I look at things.


Lastly--why is God a statistical likelihood to you??? That makes zero sense. The probability of God existing is no greater or less than the probability of a unicorn walking down your street. There is absolutely zero evidence for it.

You were way more interesting when you were active lds. At least then you had some good stories. Now you're just angry exMo.

[YOhio]

I think one of those supermax prisons would be way worse.

[SoonerCoug]

You were way more interesting when you were active lds. At least then you had some good stories. Now you're just angry exMo.

I'm not angry at all.

I just don't like being told that I should participate in Mormonism "just in case there is a God."

Participation in Mormonism is an insult to all the good gays, professional women, and people of color that I work and associate with. If the Church apologized for its past and present discriminatory practices and policies, I would consider going back to church.

It's different when you associate primarily with other Mormons. I had to leave the bubble to understand how awful it has been and how it is perceived by outsiders.

If there is one thing my black patients and associates know about Mormonism, it is its racist history. If the Church apologized and went out of its way to reach out to African-American communities (aside from attempts to convert them), they might feel differently.

I work with gay married scientists and physicians. I can't look them in the eyes and acknowledge active participation in Mormonism. It rightfully represents something terrible to them.

Policies are more than just policies. These are real people who are hurt and affected by the Church's actions.

[YOhio]

I'm not angry at all.

I just don't like being told that I should participate in Mormonism "just in case there is a God."

Participation in Mormonism is an insult to all the good gays, professional women, and people of color that I work and associate with. If the Church apologized for its past and present discriminatory practices and policies, I would consider going back to church.

It's different when you associate primarily with other Mormons. I had to leave the bubble to understand how awful it has been and how it is perceived by outsiders.

If there is one thing my black patients and associates know about Mormonism, it is its racist history. If the Church apologized and went out of its way to reach out to African-American communities (aside from attempts to convert them), they might feel differently.

I work with gay married scientists and physicians. I can't look them in the eyes and acknowledge active participation in Mormonism. It rightfully represents something terrible to them.

Policies are more than just policies. These are real people who are hurt and affected by the Church's actions.

Okay. Maybe you're not angry. Melodramatic is probably more accurate. Btw, have you considered participating in Mormonism just I case there is a God? Something to consider.

[woot]

Clack has posited nothing more than Pascal's wager, a quite silly proposition that Sooner has answered neatly. If a god exists, there's no reason to think it resembles any of the many gods invented by today's religions. Thinking to please god via adherence to any modern religion is as likely to anger a god as to please it. When considering how often religions are on the wrong side of history, perhaps it is even more likely to anger god, if we accept it is benevolent (which there's also no reason to believe). If this benevolent god is also omniscient, then attempting to believe "just in case" is obvious folly.

[Northwestcoug]

I am afraid of Clack.

No worries. In another dimension, Clack is afraid of you.

[clackamascoug]

No worries. In another dimension, Clack is afraid of you.

I know you know this... JL's not really afraid of me, he's just trying help me come back to the center of sanity where there is safety, peace and love. Deep down he wants what's best for me, but isn't sure exactly how he can help me. We have this unspoken bond, a brotherhood actually, where I do something stupid and he helps me by correcting my behavior. He wouldn't do it if he didn't care.

[HBCoug]

I know you know this... JL's not really afraid of me, he's just trying help me come back to the center of sanity where there is safety, peace and love. Deep down he wants what's best for me, but isn't sure exactly how he can help me. We have this unspoken bond, a brotherhood actually, where I do something stupid and he helps me by correcting my behavior. He wouldn't do it if he didn't care.

Sorry, but without the light gray-shaded subtext, I have no idea what you're really trying to say.

[Jeff Lebowski]

No, I am not really afraid of Clack. I was just pointing out that yet again we see that no matter how crazy a quote you dredge up, Clack can out-crazy it in a heartbeat.