The June 1

[Northwestcoug]

If women got the Priesthood, wouldn't the system work out basically the same as it does now for the men. The more conservative or orthodox you are in your thinking, the more apt you are to rise in leadership positions.

Why wouldn't it work the same for women. The very women who would rise to the top of leadership roles would be the very women who don't support the OW movement.

Can you see someone like Kate actually rising to a leadership position? How about a male Kate counterpart. Any of them rising to leadership positions?

You folks behind this movement don't just want priesthood for the women, you want an overhaul or even a revolution. Revolutions come from a popular groundswell. It just isn't there.

I think this is a good point. There is still the stereotypical view of what constitutes a leader in the church (at least in areas with a significant Mormon population). If women are ever ordained to the priesthood, it will be people who still toe the line in regards to deference to authority. Just like the women who are in general leadership positions in the auxillaries. So although I support ordaining women, I think that there will still be a significant hurdle for 'revolutionaries' like Kelly to occupy leadership positions.

[Solon]

You might be able to. Just give me two that don't involve class or economic status. It isn't like in this case women of wealth get the priesthood and those who are poor don't.

LOL. They all involve class & economic status. There is no such thing as a revolution among equals.
But, if you want social movements, then
racial civil rights & gay marriage. Both within the last 60 years.
Both effected by a well organized minority that brought widespread attention to injustice & overturned the status quo. Eventually.
You're right that the groundswell isn't there . . . yet. But this is how it starts.

I believe the OW movement will have far-reaching effects on the way women are treated in the church.
It may not go as far as ordination for many years yet, but it has caused / is causing / will cause lots and lots of LDS to re-think the messages they are sending to girls & women. I regret that the LDS leadership has avoided involvement in shaping that discussion. I suspect that LDS leadership will someday regret that avoidance.

EDIT: Lest I come across too stridently, I don't know what the future will bring. I suspect there is plenty more to unfold on this issue.
I just wish that the real conversation were about how the LDS church treats girls & women rather than whether or not the LDS church is willing to ordain them.

[byu71]

I have heard this negative message thing all my life. Get married soon sent a negative message to young men about the importance of getting a college education. Avoid the very appearance of evil and make sure your friends have the same beliefs. Women should not work. Don't pursue wealth. Masturbation will cause you to go blind. I could probably go on and on.

Guess what, people who wanted to ignored those so called negative messages. Did their own thing and had a successful relationship with and as part of the church.

This idea that everything that is said in conference, especially by the orthodox folks, is taken to heart by the membership is BS. I will bet at least half of the active membership in the church in the 70's ignored the counsel from the pulpit concerning birth control. Same goes for caffeinated beverages.

The idea that members have to be saved from being blind followers and are robots is ridiculous.

[Solon]

I have heard this negative message thing all my life. Get married soon sent a negative message to young men about the importance of getting a college education. Avoid the very appearance of evil and make sure your friends have the same beliefs. Women should not work. Don't pursue wealth. Masturbation will cause you to go blind. I could probably go on and on.

Guess what, people who wanted to ignored those so called negative messages. Did their own thing and had a successful relationship with and as part of the church.

This idea that everything that is said in conference, especially by the orthodox folks, is taken to heart by the membership is BS. I will bet at least half of the active membership in the church in the 70's ignored the counsel from the pulpit concerning birth control. Same goes for caffeinated beverages.

The idea that members have to be saved from being blind followers and are robots is ridiculous.

I think this is more true than not. I worry a little about the youth, though.

[SeattleUte]

Has this been linked? It's great.

http://www.feministmormonhousewives....t-the-enemies/

[byu71]

I think this is more true than not. I worry a little about the youth, though.

I am so far removed from the youth that honestly I can't say what is going on with them or in their minds these days.

I get a glimpse into my grandchildren's feelings. I know my 16 year old granddaughter is a straight A student and has big plans college wise and career wise. She also is as straight as can be when it comes to mormondom.

Grandson with same parents I get the idea thinks church is a pain in the butt and a hinderance to his athletic endeavors. He would probably love to let her have his Priesthood.

[kccougar]

Has this been linked? It's great.

http://www.feministmormonhousewives....t-the-enemies/

That was awesome (and really warped).

[byu71]

Has this been linked? It's great.

http://www.feministmormonhousewives....t-the-enemies/

For your own mental health, I truly wish your family and mormon friends would put their arms around you and say, we love you and have no problem with you being a non-believer.

As your friend I want you to know I have no hard feelings that you are not a believer. I wish you well and consider you as valuable a soul as any person who is a believer LDSer.

AS your friend I wish you could see how your obsession with the LDS church belies your great intelligence and makes you look like a simpleton jackass.

[SeattleUte]

That was awesome (and really warped).

I have no idea about your LDS pedigree. But those like 3D and FMCoug who didn't arrive at the LDS Church following seven generations of devout membership have no idea the psychic scars and wounds some of us bear.

[Pheidippides]

I have no idea about your LDS pedigree. But those like 3D and FMCoug who didn't arrive at the LDS Church following seven generations of devout membership have no idea the psychic scars and wounds some of us bear.

FM, are you watching? If you ever decide to become exmormon, you still have to deal with the pioneer heritage bit.

[SeattleUte]

FM, are you watching? If you ever decide to become exmormon, you still have to deal with the pioneer heritage bit.

That converts can be so daunted by that pioneer heritage that some of us have proves her point.

[splitbamboo]

I just wish that the real conversation were about how the LDS church treats girls & women rather than whether or not the LDS church is willing to ordain them.

This. This is where I'd think they could get some momentum for a movement. But I guess that's not what they want.

[thesaint258]

I was talking with my wife about the whole OW movement last night, and one of her responses was, "Of course men and women aren't equal. They never will be. Women will always be smarter than men."

[Commando]

I was talking with my wife about the whole OW movement last night, and one of her responses was, "Of course men and women aren't equal. They never will be. Women will always be smarter than men."

That's why in every Mr. Mom type movie, you have the mom out hustling on Wall Street, making it rain; smash cut to the dad who's at home with the crying kids trying to make cold cereal in a blender. Of course men are idiots!!! :crazy:

[Katy Lied]

Both effected by a well organized minority that brought widespread attention to injustice & overturned the status quo.

You really think that Queer Nation and Act Up were more instrumental than images of say, a pair of 60-year old lesbians who have been monogamous for 40 years wanting to will their property to each other? I think Queer Nation delayed the marriage question for 10 years.