The June 1

[Moliere]

Listened to the first part of the Ally Isom interview. I really, really wish women would stop saying "I've never felt diminished or less important because I don't hold the Priesthood." What a silly thing to say.

It was funny when she was going in circles and circles trying to explain to Doug that it was doctrine that the PH should only be given to men.....and she couldn't come up with anything canonical to support her position. She finally relented and said there wasn't anything to support other than current policies set by the prophets.

The church's stance on this issue is hanging by a thread.

[Moliere]

The Mormon Trasfigurism Society weighs in on the matter:

http://news.transfigurism.org/2014/0...of-christ.html

Seems like they totally whiffed on this one. They should have taken a much stronger stance and advocated for equality (they are humanists right?) and instead they give a lot of churchisms and corporatisms.

Lame...

[myboynoah]

Listened to the first part of the Ally Isom interview. I really, really wish women would stop saying "I've never felt diminished or less important because I don't hold the Priesthood." What a silly thing to say.

Yeah, women should do what they are told.

[Pheidippides]

Listened to the first part of the Ally Isom interview. I really, really wish women would stop saying "I've never felt diminished or less important because I don't hold the Priesthood." What a silly thing to say.

It was funny when she was going in circles and circles trying to explain to Doug that it was doctrine that the PH should only be given to men.....and she couldn't come up with anything canonical to support her position. She finally relented and said there wasn't anything to support other than current policies set by the prophets.

The church's stance on this issue is hanging by a thread.

I listened to it while mowing my lawn last night. Damn near cut my leg off a couple of times. Unlike the Dehlin/Kelly interiviews, I thought the take on this interview on the interwebs was spot on - it was horrible. There were so many bad moments I don't know where to start. Some of my favorite quotes (in italics, with my snark thereafter):

This process is not expulsion. Discipline is not necessarily expulsion, not exclusion, but inclusion, meant to be a loving invitation to return to the Savior.

Because nothing says inclusion like kicking somebody out of your club.


Through our covenants...women fully engage in the priesthood in terms of accessing its power and blessings.


Sort of like how my wife can watch all the TV she wants with me, but I'll damned if she can have the remote.

When you use a grammatical ultimatum, that is a doctrinal change and presents some problems.

http://www.feministmormonhousewives.org/2014/06/help-ordain-women-change-their-name/

It’s very specific that it is within the purview of the sp/bishop, and only in their purview, to make that decision.

http://rationalfaiths.com/kate-kelly...llow-handbook/

There are many avenues to discuss female ordination - congregation, sunday school, relief society. The conversation is welcome!

So long as you use the right tone, ask the right questions, and come to the right answers. Actually, that sounds less like a conversation and more like an echo chamber

We just ask that everybody engage with civvility, with honesty, with openness.

Honest and openness are probably not the best cases you can make.

This is about making sure that members of the church have undiluted and accurate information from church leaders.

I think you may have a bit more work to go there. Just FYI.

And so forth. It was pretty bad IMO, but I feel sorry for her. She seemed like a sacrificial lamb in a tough spot. Oddly, the choice to use a female PR voice may have backfired - rather than gin up sympathy for orthodox women, it seemed an awful lot like a patriarchy staying aloof and letting the women do the dirty work.

[ERCougar]

Listened to the first part of the Ally Isom interview. I really, really wish women would stop saying "I've never felt diminished or less important because I don't hold the Priesthood." What a silly thing to say.

It was funny when she was going in circles and circles trying to explain to Doug that it was doctrine that the PH should only be given to men.....and she couldn't come up with anything canonical to support her position. She finally relented and said there wasn't anything to support other than current policies set by the prophets.

The church's stance on this issue is hanging by a thread.

I listened to both the ally isom interview and dehlin/kelly interviews last night. I don't think isom came across quite as poorly as some, although she was obviously rattled a few times during the interview, and threw out a few pretty absurd statements that are going to be latched onto by the exmo crowd ("the imperative is the problem", "I'd have to check his schedule", etc). I particularly loved her example, when pressed by Doug to give a proper way to express doubt, of the blogger who prayerfully bore testimony of the Gospel on his blog. She didn't do the church any favors and I wonder if they'll go back to their prior policy of denying interviews. The juxtaposition of Kate crying against Ally's cold "it's her choice" was pretty jarring, to anyone who will listen to both. Unfortunately, most of those making public judgments about Kate aren't going to take that time.

[Moliere]

I listened to it while mowing my lawn last night. Damn near cut my leg off a couple of times.

My lawn mower has a 3-4 foot handle that keeps the blade a safe distance. Even if I fell down onto the mower I'd likely still be okay as the blade would stop turning and I'd only hit the top of the mower.

http://rationalfaiths.com/kate-kelly...llow-handbook/

I've skimmed this blog post and I think it's actually kind of silly....almost in the same way that the 13 lies post is silly....okay, it's not that bad but there are some serious issues with that rational faith blog post. In fact, if you are using that blog post as any sort of proof that the SP or bishop acted outside church policy, then you should not be taken seriously.

Don't misunderstand me, the SP did some stuff that I'd disagree with from a procedural standpoint, but it's not as bad as the exmo crowd is making it.

[byu71]

So, why do exmos still care about the church? Why do they hate it and want to see it destroyed? Whether they realize it or not, they love and terribly miss their family, and they are deeply hurt that their families appear to love the LDS Church more than them. And to the extent it was ever hard for an exmo to leave the LDS church it was only because of the people. So they want to see the institution destroyed. There is nothing about this institution outside of people you love that is anything but stultifying and outdated if not ridiculous. I have not one good memory in an LDS event outside of interactions with other LDS.

Thanks, I think that is a very honest assessment of the situation. It is easier to lash out at the church than one's own family.

Yet, the real problem lies in the family dynamics. I know many, many families who have members who are no longer active and yet they love them just the same as the active members of the family.

One of my clients who has passed was one of the kindest and most devoted members of the church I have known. He had a son who was gay and he loved that son with as much passion as any of his other children.

[ERCougar]

I listened to it while mowing my lawn last night. Damn near cut my leg off a couple of times. Unlike the Dehlin/Kelly interiviews, I thought the take on this interview on the interwebs was spot on - it was horrible. There were so many bad moments I don't know where to start. Some of my favorite quotes (in italics, with my snark thereafter):

This process is not expulsion. Discipline is not necessarily expulsion, not exclusion, but inclusion, meant to be a loving invitation to return to the Savior.

[COLOR=#000000]Because nothing says inclusion like kicking somebody out of your club.

Ha, I forgot about this gem. "yes, we want them in the congregation and participating" (just not speaking, praying, or making comments). Doug pressed her on this a little but not nearly enough.

By the way, a quick Google search revealed that Doug's Mormon. That surprises me a little. He was (appropriately) pretty probing in his questions.

[Pheidippides]

Ha, I forgot about this gem. "yes, we want them in the congregation and participating" (just not speaking, praying, or making comments). Doug pressed her on this a little but not nearly enough.

By the way, a quick Google search revealed that Doug's Mormon. That surprises me a little. He was (appropriately) pretty probing in his questions.

I thought his greatest question was when he asked her why wouldn't the corporate church want to be involved in such a high profile action. She never did answer.

The end of the interview was the worst part imo. It's her choice, she says. Other than the fact that she has zero choice at this point, as it's all in the hands of her bishop, the entire statement implies that there is no room for honest dissent.

[Dwight Schr-ute]

Ha, I forgot about this gem. "yes, we want them in the congregation and participating" (just not speaking, praying, or making comments). Doug pressed her on this a little but not nearly enough.

By the way, a quick Google search revealed that Doug's Mormon. That surprises me a little. He was (appropriately) pretty probing in his questions.

That surprises me quite a bit as well. I assumed that he was a Salt Lake transplant. That makes a lot more sense on how KUER has been able to keep his all of these years, as I think that his talents are worthy of a much bigger demographic. I found this piece of gossip:

Doug is married to Alice Storm, who also used to work for KUER. He has several children from a previous marriage.

Doug considers himself to be an active Mormon, although he drinks alcohol and had a "relationship" with Alice while still married, so needless to say, his church views are somewhat liberal.

He is from Utah.

As for the stutter, he doesn't have it in normal conversation, so I think it's his way of filling time while he's thinking during interviews. The same way other people use "um."

Doug Fabrizio is CS's very own MarkGrace?!

[Moliere]

Just for context, here's a pic of the church PR senior manager Ally Isom:

[All-American]

The end of the interview was the worst part imo. It's her choice, she says. Other than the fact that she has zero choice at this point, as it's all in the hands of her bishop, the entire statement implies that there is no room for honest dissent.

Disagree.

[Vic Vega]

I thought his greatest question was when he asked her why wouldn't the corporate church want to be involved in such a high profile action. She never did answer.

The end of the interview was the worst part imo. It's her choice, she says. Other than the fact that she has zero choice at this point, as it's all in the hands of her bishop, the entire statement implies that there is no room for honest dissent.

I think trying to use political action to try to get pressure from non-church members to force the church to change policy will get you exed almost 100% of the time. I don't understand why this is surprising. That is Mormon 101 stuff.

The idea is that you believe God runs the church through leaders when you are a member. If you are quietly unsure nobody cares. If you make up your mind that it isn't God running the show and you need to make something happen.... Boom, outta here.

And frankly I'm fine with that. There isn't a convention or vote. You can live with the basic framework, or you can enjoy some of it while leaving parts out, but if you want to burn the building down, just leave.

Fight it from the outside if you must, but don't pretend to not understand the game and how it works.

[imanihonjin]

Disagree.

No kidding. Kate has several choices she could make at this point. She may not like those choices and their consequences, but they are in fact her choices to make.

[RC Vikings]

Just for context, here's a pic of the church PR senior manager Ally Isom:

She's the wife of one of my roommates at BSU. He went to BYU after his mission and met her down there.