The June 1

[Topper]

That was well done. I believe a stake president can intervene for women endowed.

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[Portland Ute]

Today on RadioWest Dehlin reputedly compared the church to a dirty shirt, called it a billion dollar organization, and said this is why you don't have 80 year old men run it (I didn't listen). He also said that Monson suffers from dementia. While I agree with him generally (other than the billion dollar thing - that's several magnitudes too small), I think he probably just committed suicide-by-cop.

It seems he's in the mod of wanting to go out in a blaze of glory at this point.

His comments (alleged and relayed by you) seem to betray everything he's worked for or claimed to be.

Kind of disappointing but not unexpected.

[snowcat]

Yeah. To be honest, I only skimmed after that. It was so obviously wrong - women were a cowering afterthought in all the ward councils I've been in.

Your ward councils did not look like mine.

[Green Monstah]

Yeah. To be honest, I only skimmed after that. It was so obviously wrong - women were a cowering afterthought in all the ward councils I've been in.

I give props to the women in the ward councils I attended. I didn't see much submission on their part. In a way, they're in a similar position to everyone else in the council--input welcomed, but the bishop had ultimate authority. They were usually missed/needed in PEC. Same damn meeting, only key pieces to the ward puzzle are absent.

[Sullyute]

Ally isn't fairing well.

You can definitely tell she was trained in politics as she not so artfully dodged Doug's questions. I don't think she hurt the church's image but she did little to improve it. I thought Doug gave her a softball question at the very end and she completely whiffed on it. I would be really interested to know which of the twelve sit on the PR board.

[Pheidippides]

It seems he's in the mod of wanting to go out in a blaze of glory at this point.

His comments (alleged and relayed by you) seem to betray everything he's worked for or claimed to be.

Kind of disappointing but not unexpected.

i listened to the actual interview after typing that and it was much less inflammatory than reported.

[creekster]

i listened to the actual interview after typing that and it was much less inflammatory than reported.

I think this may be part of the problem here. Too many people are posting about these events like they are writing headlines for Drudge.

[creekster]

I give props to the women in the ward councils I attended. I didn't see much submission on their part. In a way, they're in a similar position to everyone else in the council--input welcomed, but the bishop had ultimate authority. They were usually missed/needed in PEC. Same damn meeting, only key pieces to the ward puzzle are absent.

My ward solved this by inviting them to the PEC. The CHOI says something like the RS president or others can be invited to PEC as necessary, so we simply found it perpetually necessary. In fact, it often was as welfare efforts and missionary efforts of the ward so often involved RS and Primary and YW that we really couldnt get much finalized without all hands on deck.

[Dwight Schr-ute]

You can definitely tell she was trained in politics as she not so artfully dodged Doug's questions. I don't think she hurt the church's image but she did little to improve it. I thought Doug gave her a softball question at the very end and she completely whiffed on it. I would be really interested to know which of the twelve sit on the PR board.

I agree. The interview left a bad taste in my mouth, which I expected it to, but for completely unanticipated reasons. I figured that Ally would come in very cold and hard lined, but she was the opposite. More of a Relief Society President than a PR agent. But I think it will end up being more damning. Since she couldn't produce any canonical statements that women aren't allowed to hold the priesthood, Ally had to dig in with the point that "the question isn't the problem, it's about tone, intent, and sincerity." Say what you will about Kate Kelly, but I think this round of high profile build up the last week has displayed all of those things extremely well. Maybe the hardest thing to question at this point is her sincerity.

I loved that last question. "Kate Kelly has stated that being Mormon is part of her. It's who she is. Wouldn't it be sad if she was forced to give it up over this single issue?" Sister Isom responded with the coldness that I expected her to carry through the whole interview. "Yes, it would be. It's her choice."

[Eddie]

The women play a prominent role in our ward council - at least a prominent as the men there. And the RS President gets exactly what she wants so often there are times I think she must have naked photos of the Bishop.

Lebowski - I obviously have failed to adequately communicate my belief. And I'll probably fail to do so again. So I'll try to come at it from a different direction and see if it works. I believe God is kind and loving and wants the best for all of his children. I believe He is perfect. I also believe that he is stuck working with a bunch of imperfect humans here on earth as prophets and church leaders - with the added struggle of human nature as a whole (if it was just the prophets that would be one thing. But there are a whole bunch of people who don't acknowledge prophets and are just doing their own thing.) So whatever He does, has to be done within the context of culture/understanding of the people. People who will listen/accept a prophet along a continuum of not at all to as much as possible. If you believe that the law of Moses was a preparatory law and that Jesus came to fulfill it and bring a higher law - I don't think it is difficult to accept that there are degrees to what is expected of us and to God's commandments. Nor is it difficult to believe that some things can change...or even will change...over time. Some things won't, to be sure. But some things will.

My belief in the gospel of Jesus Christ and the LDS church isn't founded so firmly in some principle (like who can hold the priesthood) so as to cause me to defend it one way or the other. There are certain things I don't understand. I ask questions to be sure, but I trust and have faith that things will work out in the end. And for whatever reason (I'm sure it will be pointed out by someone that this is due to me being a privileged white male) I don't assume anything is permanent or worry about the time it takes for certain changes to take place. For now, the knowledge that I have is enough.

Just reading back over this, I don't think it adequately represents what I'm feeling or thinking. And there are certain things that I just don't have the answer to at this time. I'm OK with that.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Nice post, Eddie. Thanks.

[Pheidippides]

I think this may be part of the problem here. Too many people are posting about these events like they are writing headlines for Drudge.

Which is exactly why I said reportedly.

To what should be the non - surprise of everybody here, the exmormons are counting major coup over the interview and/or offering to have Doug ' s children. I'll withhold my own judgment until I listen to it. However, it does strike me as a bit odd that the church sends out a new hire PR person with no authority to defend a difficult position against a pretty sympathetic character (speaking of Kate - Dehlin is less so).

[Jeff Lebowski]

This is funny. A handy template for building your own blog post on the OW affair.

http://bycommonconsent.com/2014/06/1...template-post/

[Pheidippides]

This is funny. A handy template for building your own blog post on the OW affair.

http://bycommonconsent.com/2014/06/1...template-post/

Lol. that was well done.

[TripletDaddy]

Which is exactly why I said reportedly.

To what should be the non - surprise of everybody here, the exmormons are counting major coup over the interview and/or offering to have Doug ' s children. I'll withhold my own judgment until I listen to it. However, it does strike me as a bit odd that the church sends out a new hire PR person with no authority to defend a difficult position against a pretty sympathetic character (speaking of Kate - Dehlin is less so).

Can you expound on this, at least as far as your experience allows? The "exmo" crowd....what is their end game? Do they want to see the Church destroyed and cease all ops? If they could have it their way on a broad scale, what is it that they seek? Assuming for a second that these Exmos want harm to come to the Church, it appears to me that the Exmo movement is mostly pathetic if it counts these blips as victories towards some sort of larger symbolic goal. As you observed yesterday, most local folks don't even know a single thing about it. Why would anyone else outside of Mormonism care much beyond one or two news cycles?