The June 1

[All-American]

Ah, gotcha. I had no idea they were moving out of state people into the new complex. Of course I've noticed the huge campus since it now takes me twice as long to get to 45 and don't even try going through that area around rush hour. Total nightmare until they get the Grand Parkway completed.



I think the bolded part is most true and is causing a lot of the issue. There is no formal due process in the church. Due process only exists to the extent that a local leader allows it to exist...which I'll admit is most of the time given that most local leaders would rather not hold disciplinary councils.

One thing Kate Kelly can do is appeal the decision, however since she's a woman and is being tried by her bishopric she can only appeal to the stake president (I think we obviously know where that appeal will get her since the SP was the one who initiated the thing). I have no idea if she can appeal twice (once to SP and once to First Presidency as the CHoI doesn't explicitly or implicitly indicate she can...but of course she can try). If she were a man (MPH holder) then she'd be tried by the stake and that decision could be appealed to the first presidency.

Just another example of the unfairness or misogyny that exists in the church.

Misogyny? That puts it a little strong, don't you think?

[Omaha 680]

Strange logic. She's the one that let everyone know who the "accused" is.

[Pheidippides]

Misogyny? That puts it a little strong, don't you think?

What would you call it?

[All-American]

What would you call it?

Disparate treatment.

[Pheidippides]

Disparate treatment.

a kissing cousin to separate but equal.

[Moliere]

Misogyny? That puts it a little strong, don't you think?

Disparate treatment.

Yeah, misogyny is probably too strong. Maybe I'd put it somewhere between misogyny and disparate treatment.

[All-American]

a kissing cousin to separate but equal.

The same authority that disavowed "separate but equal" in matters of race also acknowledged that important differences between men and women may justify gender-based distinctions where race-based distinctions would fail.

[Goatnapper'96]

Yep. Really dumb move.

Is this moving her closer to seeking to "burning it down?"

[All-American]

Yeah, misogyny is probably too strong. Maybe I'd put it somewhere between misogyny and disparate treatment.

I guess the next question is who gets the short end of the stick in this case of disparate treatment. Just as a hunch, I would guess that you would be more likely to get more scrutinizing review by a stake president of a bishop's decision than by the first presidency of a stake president's decision. It would take some glaring issues, I would think, for the first presidency to decide against deference. I'm not sure this form of "unfairness" doesn't actually inure to women's benefit.

[All-American]

Yep. Really dumb move.

Disagree. I think it's quite cunning.

[Goatnapper'96]

I guess the next question is who gets the short end of the stick in this case of disparate treatment. Just as a hunch, I would guess that you would be more likely to get more scrutinizing review by a stake president of a bishop's decision than by the first presidency of a stake president's decision. It would take some glaring issues, I would think, for the first presidency to decide against deference. I'm not sure this form of "unfairness" doesn't actually inure to women's benefit.

I agree. I would always think that the local leaders would be closer to the situation and more lenient/compassionate since they likely have some type of relationship with the individual involved.

[TripletDaddy]

Disagree. I think it's quite cunning.

She has shown herself to be a cunning linguist, that's for sure.

[Green Monstah]

The same authority that disavowed "separate but equal" in matters of race also acknowledged that important differences between men and women may justify gender-based distinctions where race-based distinctions would fail.

Of course that same authority considers gender-based disparate impacts in employment without justification to be discrimination, so...

[SeattleUte]

I think that one of the problems she has had all along is that she's getting bad advice on how to proceed here (and look, were I in her position I'd probably be scrambling too). I know that OW likes to push forward the idea that everyone running the show is a faithful all in member of the church, but there are also those that support the organization that have already made their decision with regard to their own church membership and as such are advising Kelly as people with "nothing to lose." So I think that's partially where she's strategically missing the mark.

As for the article, I'm interested to know what Bishop actually has time to hunt down the internet activity of the members of their ward. I remember specifically an incident in our ward when I was exec sec where several people emailed the Bishop fb posts of some women who had gone to a concert on Sunday. He dismissed those emails outright without even reading them citing it as "none of his business." My guess is that these activities are being reported by other members of the ward and the bishops have to then decide if it is an issue. (Obviously not the case with Dehlin or Kelly, but more low-profile folks).

Jeez. I keep reading she's getting bad advice. Whether or not she's getting bad advice depends on her objectives. I doubt her true end game is to be reinstated in the LDS Church as your regular female drone. If her objective is to make herself a martyr to progressive mos and exmos and humiliate the LDS Church in the secular or at least the liberal press she's doing spectacularly well. She's going to have iconic, legendary status at the rate she's going and has inflicted damage on the LDS Church. It's a lot more fun to be a cult hero than a member in good standing of the LDS church. I want to hire her publicist!

Also, all this talk by members of the patriarchy that she's getting bad advice seems to me pretty condescending and sexist. She's a lot smarter than the old men who are after her head from what I've seen.

[Pheidippides]

The same authority that disavowed "separate but equal" in matters of race also acknowledged that important differences between men and women may justify gender-based distinctions where race-based distinctions would fail.

Long live your priesthood antenna then.