The June 1

[YOhio]

Sure, but there's a point where everybody knows exactly where you stand and so there is no point in restating/repeating the same thing over and over. And you should be nice/respectful to Mormons on a BYU board.

I think he's trying too hard. It's more about convincing himself that he doesn't have a testimony than convincing us that he's right.

[Commando]

So she shouldn't be complaining about the disciplinary hearing.

Sooner All-American

[SoonerCoug]

I think he's trying too hard. It's more about convincing himself that he doesn't have a testimony than convincing us that he's right.

Thank you YOhio. I like your version better.

[All-American]

Do you think she is courageous or cowardly, in general? Coward? I think she has been bold.

Sometimes the better part of valor is discretion.

[SoonerCoug]

Sometimes the better part of valor is discretion.

So if you were sitting face to face with great reformers from history, would you advise them not to be so progressive or to be quiet?

Women will get the priesthood just like black men got the priesthood. Imagine reading your words 20 years later. Would you stand by them? The reformer shouldn't have said anything?

Mormons were disciplined or even excommunicated for advocating to give blacks the priesthood. (Some were even ordaining black men and disciplined by the church for it.) Did these people lack discretion?

My grandmother used to challenge her brother-in-law, President Kimball, on this very issue. Should she have used more discretion or might she have influenced him in a small way?

[YOhio]

So if you were sitting face to face with great reformers from history, would you advise them not to be so progressive or to be quiet?

Women will get the priesthood just like black men got the priesthood. Imagine reading your words 20 years later. Would you stand by them? The reformer shouldn't have said anything?

Mormons were disciplined or even excommunicated for advocating to give blacks the priesthood. (Some were even ordaining black men and disciplined by the church for it.) Did these people lack discretion?

My grandmother used to challenge her brother-in-law, President Kimball, on this very issue. Should she have used more discretion or might she have influenced him in a small way?

And just think where we would be had you stood up a little more when playing the piano for the primary?

[SoonerCoug]

And just think where we would be had you stood up a little more when playing the piano for the primary?

Lol.

I have directed tweets at Elder Holland but he won't reply.

[All-American]

So if you were sitting face to face with great reformers from history, would you advise them not to be so progressive or to be quiet?

Women will get the priesthood just like blacks got the priesthood. Imagine reading your words 20 years later. Would you stand by them? The reformer shouldn't have said anything?

Mormons were disciplined or even excommunicated for advocating to give blacks the priesthood. (Some were even ordaining blacks and disciplined by the church for it.) Did these people lack discretion?

Actually, MLK and Gandhi were as successful as they were precisely because they knew when not to push too far. Discretion is the reason the third Monday in January isn't Malcolm X day.

The fact is that all this has very little to do with the cause and everything to do with the tactics.

[SoonerCoug]

Actually, MLK and Gandhi were as successful as they were precisely because they knew when not to push too far. Discretion is the reason the third Monday in January isn't Malcolm X day.

The fact is that all this has very little to do with the cause and everything to do with the tactics.

I see your point (a good one) but respectfully disagree as far as Kate Kelly is concerned.

I mean, it's not like Kate Kelly held a million man march. It was just a few hundred women.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Actually, MLK and Gandhi were as successful as they were precisely because they knew when not to push too far. Discretion is the reason the third Monday in January isn't Malcolm X day.

The fact is that all this has very little to do with the cause and everything to do with the tactics.

That's a great line.

[SoonerCoug]

I will say this about Kate Kelly:

I think her tactics will make the central committee hesitant to give women the priesthood for fear that the apostles would appear influenced by Ordain Women. (A pride issue, which shouldn't be an issue considering the BOM, but nobody is perfect.)

On the other hand, immediate token concessions resulted from the protests (women on the Ensign GA centerfold and allowing women to watch the priesthood session live but only on TV). But it's kind of amazing that this is all the leaders were able to concede. Imagine how powerful it would have been for President Monson to walk to the door of the tabernacle and let the women in--a golden opportunity missed.

[frank ryan]

Actually, MLK and Gandhi were as successful as they were precisely because they knew when not to push too far. Discretion is the reason the third Monday in January isn't Malcolm X day.

The fact is that all this has very little to do with the cause and everything to do with the tactics.

King wasn't done pushing. Some of his family members asserted that his assassination was linked to him tackling economic injustice. His "poor peoples movement" never took off after he died.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

That's pretty cool Sooner is related to SWK by marriage. Bro, you are kind of like George Clinton!

[Commando]

Imagine how powerful it would have been for President Monson to walk to the door of the tabernacle and let the women in--a golden opportunity missed.

Keeping in mind that Kate Kelly doesn't give two shits about the church itself.... it would be a chump move.

[Jeff Lebowski]

King wasn't done pushing. Some of his family members asserted that his assassination was linked to him tackling economic injustice. His "poor peoples movement" never took off after he died.

Meh. His assassination was a result of the actions of a single racist wacko nutjob.

By the way, this is an outstanding book:

http://www.amazon.com/Hellhound-his-...d+on+his+trail