Latest Stats and Facts on Punography

[woot]

I don't know how much I should say, but I think that I'm probably the most liberal on this topic of anyone here. In my experience, porn does not create unrealistic expectations, but rather the opposite. Porn actors have shallow, unfulfilling sex in positions that while fun, are often more about the viewing angle than the pleasure. The women are often overly made-up and often have enormous falsies, etc. I'm generalizing here, as there is some very good, high quality stuff available as well. Regardless, my current partner compares very favorably with any of the women that we sometimes view together, as does the experience which often follows. Many here will find this creepy, but it's amazing to be in a relationship in which these things are considered normal rather than forbidden. For one thing, the desire to view these things is decreased when there is no stigma attached, and it can be done spontaneously and thoughtfully without any sense of selfish gratification.

I do find it somewhat ironic that many of the complaints submitted against pornography would apply equally well to those among us who spend their lives on the internet, even if they do avoid the porn.

Finally, here's a video that I find absolutely hilarious. This is not safe for work due to some language and a bit of fuckin' at the beginning. It's the Onion, so it's not reverent.

http://www.videosift.com/video/Child...o-be-Enjoyable

[LA Ute]

Ah, the old belief card. If an idea is wrong or even harmful, why should it be immune from attack because it is clothed in the garb of religious belief? The fact is religions should get no exemption, particularly when they intrude in matters of scientific and secular concern, which they inevitably do because fundamentally they are concerned with the same subjects as science and the law. (Anyway, is the "belief" I'm criticizing policy or doctrine or something else?)

Aw, I'm just accusing you of bad manners. Socrates, Twain and Richard Dawkins are overkill in response to that. And go ahead and beat up on Mark E. Peterson all you want; just leave Neal Maxwell alone or I'll have to come up to Seattle and chew you out over an expensive lunch paid for by you.

[SeattleUte]

Then what in the hell did you want? I know him, my dad fired him. If you're not going to accept a response from someone on the 'internet,' then why even ask?

Mr. Academia, do you have a case study? Articles? Science? I'm sure I could find you a lot of scientific stuff on alcoholism. It's funny you responed with exactly the unsubstantiated anecdotal stuff--from ex-girfriends and ex-wives--that I'm talking about.

It should also be noted, while that I don't really know how empirically solid is that 85% figure in the Atlantic, if it could be shown that more availabilty of porn reduced--85% is almost wiping it out!--sexual violence, then whatever porn's negatives one would have to go a long ways to prove a net negative impact on society. Maybe porn is more comparable to bicyling than video games.

[SeattleUte]

Aw, I'm just accusing you of bad manners. Socrates, Twain and Richard Dawkins are overkill in response to that. And go ahead and beat up on Mark E. Peterson all you want; just leave Neal Maxwell alone or I'll have to come up to Seattle and chew you out over an expensive lunch paid for by you.

If I ever find anything on NAM I would know better than to beat up on him, at least before I gave you a PM and chance to respond.

[jay santos]

While I know there of plenty of women who are into porn or at least don't mind that their husbands view porn, I think most women in and out of the church would prefer if their husbands didn't watch it.

I'd be very curious to know if that were true. I'd like to know how serious women took their husbands viewing of porn religious vs non-religious. I wonder if back to my thoughts on how religion contributes to the creation of porn addiction if religion also contributes to the hyper-sensitivity women might have for it.

[FN Phat]

I have a non-member friend that broke up with a long time girl friend b/c she watched porn on a regular basis. I have always thought that that was odd.

FYI, she is way hot.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

I have a non-member friend that broke up with a long time girl friend b/c she watched porn on a regular basis. I have always thought that that was odd.

FYI, she is way hot.

What a total dumbass.

[jay santos]

I have a non-member friend that broke up with a long time girl friend b/c she watched porn on a regular basis. I have always thought that that was odd.

FYI, she is way hot.

Idiot

[LA Ute]

For whatever it's worth, a close friend who is LDS and a marriage and family therapist and sees a ton of Mormon folks in our area has an interesting perspective. She says that when one member of a couple has a serious fascination/obsession/addiction regarding porn, the couple's sex life generally suffers. Usually that is because one partner (usually the husband) tends to have very high (unrealistic) expectations, is hard to satisfy, and often ask the other to imitate acts that are done in the porn films that the other finds . . . unpleasant or repulsive. (How's that for careful wording?) This obviously causes strain in the relationship.

It's anecdotal, but it does come from a professional with years of experience. And this is not an LDS Social Services type, either.

[Jeff Lebowski]

For whatever it's worth, a close friend who is LDS and a marriage and family therapist and sees a ton of Mormon folks in our area has an interesting perspective. She says that when one member of a couple has a serious fascination/obsession/addiction regarding porn, the couple's sex life generally suffers. Usually that is because one partner (usually the husband) tends to have very high (unrealistic) expectations, is hard to satisfy, and often ask the other to imitate acts that are done in the porn films that the other finds . . . unpleasant or repulsive. (How's that for careful wording?) This obviously causes strain in the relationship.

It's anecdotal, but it does come from a professional with years of experience. And this is not an LDS Social Services type, either.

That certainly makes sense.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

For whatever it's worth, a close friend who is LDS and a marriage and family therapist and sees a ton of Mormon folks in our area has an interesting perspective. She says that when one member of a couple has a serious fascination/obsession/addiction regarding porn, the couple's sex life generally suffers. Usually that is because one partner (usually the husband) tends to have very high (unrealistic) expectations, is hard to satisfy, and often ask the other to imitate acts that are done in the porn films that the other finds . . . unpleasant or repulsive. (How's that for careful wording?) This obviously causes strain in the relationship.

It's anecdotal, but it does come from a professional with years of experience. And this is not an LDS Social Services type, either.

So the husband is trying to force the wife to perform oral sex or anal sex? I had a bishop at BYU who was a gynecologist who was very open to these kinds of discussions and actually did a Q&A session during a 5th sunday combined relief society and priesthood meeting. The questions were written down and submitted in a hat or basket to the bishop. Literally half the questions were on "is it okay to perform oral sex within a marriage?"

I find it unfortunate that it seems like a lot of people in the church apparently may feel guilty or prohibited from oral sex (whether someone wants to do it is another story).

As for anal sex, the idea repulses me and I may be a little old fashioned in saying that I find that the variety between a man and woman to be degrading to the woman. With gay males, I realize they're just working with what equipment they have.

[Coach McGuirk]

For whatever it's worth, a close friend who is LDS and a marriage and family therapist and sees a ton of Mormon folks in our area has an interesting perspective. She says that when one member of a couple has a serious fascination/obsession/addiction regarding porn, the couple's sex life generally suffers. Usually that is because one partner (usually the husband) tends to have very high (unrealistic) expectations, is hard to satisfy, and often ask the other to imitate acts that are done in the porn films that the other finds . . . unpleasant or repulsive. (How's that for careful wording?) This obviously causes strain in the relationship.

It's anecdotal, but it does come from a professional with years of experience. And this is not an LDS Social Services type, either.

So, the only place we are finding out about sexual positions is porn? Back in my not so straight and narrow days, I can tell you there is not one thing I saw in porn that I had not heard about from my friends or experienced myself. Did anyone have a sex talk with their potential spouse? What she would and would not do? What you would and would not do?

[Color Me Badd Fan]

So, the only place we are finding out about sexual positions is porn? Back in my not so straight and narrow days, I can tell you there is not one thing I saw in porn that I had not heard about from my friends or experienced myself. Did anyone have a sex talk with their potential spouse? What she would and would not do? What you would and would not do?

I don't think that what's LA Ute is saying. He's saying that a guy's porn usage may create an affinity for anal sex or something like that. He sees it depicted and wants the wife to recreate the act. The wife obviously wants none of it and the guy isn't satisfied and the woman is wondering what the hell is wrong with her husband. It's certainly possible that a guy would want that even without the porn (sodomy laws have been on the books since long before porn) but it's certainly possible that repeatedly seeing the depiction would cause some kind of compulsion.

[OhioBlue]

For whatever it's worth, a close friend who is LDS and a marriage and family therapist and sees a ton of Mormon folks in our area has an interesting perspective. She says that when one member of a couple has a serious fascination/obsession/addiction regarding porn, the couple's sex life generally suffers. Usually that is because one partner (usually the husband) tends to have very high (unrealistic) expectations, is hard to satisfy, and often ask the other to imitate acts that are done in the porn films that the other finds . . . unpleasant or repulsive. (How's that for careful wording?) This obviously causes strain in the relationship.

It's anecdotal, but it does come from a professional with years of experience. And this is not an LDS Social Services type, either.

This happens, sure. The converse also happens, making this type of conclusion one of those correlation-isn't-causation type of things. I'm sure this has been hashed and re-hashed already, but the LDS culture doesn't exactly prepare its members for healthy sexual relationships, at least not very well (I know I'm generalizing). The author of 'And They Were Not Ashamed' does a pretty decent job taking on the ideas of the 'Good Girl Syndrome' that many LDS women seem to adopt. There's just no way that the combo of a sexually cold spouse and his/her counterpart with a strong sex drive doesn't create problems of some sort. Or at least exacerbate those problems that may have already existed in some form. Pornography obviously fits here.

I'm not blaming women in the church for their husbands' porn problems. But this part of the complicated marital relationship is still taboo in LDS culture, ie the Good Girl Syndrome. From my experience, whether chicken or egg it quite often is at least a mediating variable in marriages where porn use is a problem. Again, there are plenty of times where the porn-seeking offender has no excuse...but we already seem to rail plenty on this, to the point where it's the assumed scenario too often.

Unrelated, it has also been interesting to hear LDS women disclose problems with porn and masturbation. You think it's taboo for men? At least men in the church recently have got the idea, many of them, that it's not an uncommon thing to struggle with. There's kind of an unspoken feeling of 'at least I'm not alone' even if that doesn't take much off of the intense shame and guilt. Women have no such sense of universality. And there are plenty out there who struggle in this area as well.

[SeattleUte]

For whatever it's worth, a close friend who is LDS and a marriage and family therapist and sees a ton of Mormon folks in our area has an interesting perspective. She says that when one member of a couple has a serious fascination/obsession/addiction regarding porn, the couple's sex life generally suffers. Usually that is because one partner (usually the husband) tends to have very high (unrealistic) expectations, is hard to satisfy, and often ask the other to imitate acts that are done in the porn films that the other finds . . . unpleasant or repulsive. (How's that for careful wording?) This obviously causes strain in the relationship.

It's anecdotal, but it does come from a professional with years of experience. And this is not an LDS Social Services type, either.

So she's saying that the average guy would, for example, rather watch repulsive sex on a DVD or computer than have more conventional kinds of sex with his wife? The implication seems to be that otherwise they have a healthy sex life but the guy wrecks it by getting repulsive ideas from porn and trying to get his wife to participate in similar activity, which turns her off of more conventional sex she was otherwise happy to do.

Okay, if you say so. That doesn't comport with my common sense and experience.