Latest Stats and Facts on Punography

[CardiacCoug]

So as long as I don't stop going to work I can drink as much booze as I want without becoming an alcoholic? That is good to know.

Sure, somebody who ends every day with an alcoholic beverage or two and some porn viewing is not clinically "addicted" to either. Sorry -- that's pretty much normal human behavior and obviously not any type of addictive disorder.

[UVACoug]

Sure, somebody who ends every day with an alcoholic beverage or two and some porn viewing is not clinically "addicted" to either. Sorry -- that's pretty much normal human behavior and obviously not any type of addictive disorder.

Who said anything about one or two drinks? Based on your definition, I could be drunk every waking moment and not be an alcoholic as long as I don't stop going to work.

The problem I see with this debate (and almost every debate on the internet) is the need for people to take extreme positions. Of course its absurd to think that everyone that looks at porn occasionally is an addict (a position I have never heard anyone in or out of the Church ever take). I think it is equally absurd to pretend like over-consumption of porn is an extremely rare problem that rarely has any real impact on people ... or to think it is myth created by religious fanatics. I don't really care whether you call it addiction or something else. I don't think it can be seriously disputed that porn consumption has increased exponentially since the internet became ubiquitous. I also think it is pretty preposterous to think that doesn't have any real effect on a porn consumer's mental health (whether they can still go to work or not). I also know, from first hand experience, that there are a lot more people with porn habits they want to end than your post would suggest. Should we say those people are addicts? Maybe not ... but is it any worse than telling them they are healthy and are just too weak and pathetic to stop doing something they don't want to do on their own? If someone wants to end a porn habit, I don't see the harm in helping them accomplish that ... regardless of whether you call it an addiction or not.

It's not just "religious fanatics" that recognize this issue. There are several secular groups, and scientists, that have recognized the problems associated with heavy porn consumption. Joseph Gordon Leavitt made a movie about it, which I don't think was motivated by some religious zealotry. I think the addiction/non-addiction debate trivializes a major change in our culture, and I would be shocked if that change did not have serious mental health consequences.

[Northwestcoug]

Who said anything about one or two drinks? Based on your definition, I could be drunk every waking moment and not be an alcoholic as long as I don't stop going to work.

The problem I see with this debate (and almost every debate on the internet) is the need for people to take extreme positions. Of course its absurd to think that everyone that looks at porn occasionally is an addict (a position I have never heard anyone in or out of the Church ever take). I think it is equally absurd to pretend like over-consumption of porn is an extremely rare problem that rarely has any real impact on people ... or to think it is myth created by religious fanatics. I don't really care whether you call it addiction or something else. I don't think it can be seriously disputed that porn consumption has increased exponentially since the internet became ubiquitous. I also think it is pretty preposterous to think that doesn't have any real effect on a porn consumer's mental health (whether they can still go to work or not). I also know, from first hand experience, that there are a lot more people with porn habits they want to end than your post would suggest. Should we say those people are addicts? Maybe not ... but is it any worse than telling them they are healthy and are just too weak and pathetic to stop doing something they don't want to do on their own? If someone wants to end a porn habit, I don't see the harm in helping them accomplish that ... regardless of whether you call it an addiction or not.

It's not just "religious fanatics" that recognize this issue. There are several secular groups, and scientists, that have recognized the problems associated with heavy porn consumption. Joseph Gordon Leavitt made a movie about it, which I don't think was motivated by some religious zealotry. I think the addiction/non-addiction debate trivializes a major change in our culture, and I would be shocked if that change did not have serious mental health consequences.

I'll choose my words carefully because of your well-known habit of parsing others' posts ridiculously:

As far as I know, no one on this board has said heavy porn consumption isn't healthy. Given that there's a lot of porn out there, I'm sure there's quite a few 'heavy users' whom we interact with daily. They go about their lives and contribute to society. Some of them might in fact, be addicted, meaning that some aspect of their lives are compromised due to their porn habits. It seems like most people who deal with addiction would agree that porn addiction is a rare phenomenon. But that is not the issue.

The issue is that the church doesn't care much if members equate consumption with addiction. And since I would wager near 100% of the members of this board have consumed porn, a percentage of them are going to deal with significant guilt because the church is letting them feel they are addicted. And some of those who feel guilt will then even struggle with a vicious cycle of consumption and depression. And some spouses will take to heart the near constant drum deating against pornography, and a few of those will wonder why otherwise good people have broken serious covenants and wonder if they should continue living with the offenders.

Now extrapolate that to the general church membership, and ask yourself what is more harmful. A spouse getting aroused at some boobies, or a church structure allowing otherwise good people to feel the weight of judgement from leaders and spouses to make them feel worthless.

[Clark Addison]

Who said anything about one or two drinks? Based on your definition, I could be drunk every waking moment and not be an alcoholic as long as I don't stop going to work.

The problem I see with this debate (and almost every debate on the internet) is the need for people to take extreme positions. Of course its absurd to think that everyone that looks at porn occasionally is an addict (a position I have never heard anyone in or out of the Church ever take). I think it is equally absurd to pretend like over-consumption of porn is an extremely rare problem that rarely has any real impact on people ... or to think it is myth created by religious fanatics. I don't really care whether you call it addiction or something else. I don't think it can be seriously disputed that porn consumption has increased exponentially since the internet became ubiquitous. I also think it is pretty preposterous to think that doesn't have any real effect on a porn consumer's mental health (whether they can still go to work or not). I also know, from first hand experience, that there are a lot more people with porn habits they want to end than your post would suggest. Should we say those people are addicts? Maybe not ... but is it any worse than telling them they are healthy and are just too weak and pathetic to stop doing something they don't want to do on their own? If someone wants to end a porn habit, I don't see the harm in helping them accomplish that ... regardless of whether you call it an addiction or not.

It's not just "religious fanatics" that recognize this issue. There are several secular groups, and scientists, that have recognized the problems associated with heavy porn consumption. Joseph Gordon Leavitt made a movie about it, which I don't think was motivated by some religious zealotry. I think the addiction/non-addiction debate trivializes a major change in our culture, and I would be shocked if that change did not have serious mental health consequences.

I agree with some of what you have said, and disagree with some. For now, I just wanted to address the bold section. I am surprised you have never heard anyone take this position. I guarantee that a significant percentage of active Mormons (especially women) would say that someone who looks at porn once a month is addicted to porn.

[UVACoug]

I agree with some of what you have said, and disagree with some. For now, I just wanted to address the bold section. I am surprised you have never heard anyone take this position. I guarantee that a significant percentage of active Mormons (especially women) would say that someone who looks at porn once a month is addicted to porn.

I would be very shocked if your "guarantee" were true. You don't give ordinary Church members enough credit. The vast majority of them recognize the difference between occasional porn consumption and a serious habit that impacts someone's life. Are there people on the fringe that fit into the category you describe? Yes. There are also people on the fringe that believe God has secretly called them to practice polygamy. I may be completely wrong, but I haven't seen any significant evidence that there is any significant portion of the Church that would consider monthly porn consumption an addiction.

Now ... the vast majority of Church members have been taught and believe that monthly porn consumption is sinful. Some believe it is a more serious sin than others, and I think we would both agree that there are too many people in the Church (including priesthood leaders) overreact to occasional porn use in a manner that is counterproductive. Occasional porn consumption is not a cardinal sin. Neither is daily porn consumption ... or daily cigarette and alcohol consumption, for that matter. Way too many members of the Church spend way too much time caring about the sins of other people. I think we can all do better at looking past other people's flaws and worry more about our own. That is the real thing that needs to change, not whether or not we call a significant porn habit an addiction (or treat it like one).

I just think the addiction/non-addiction debate is a semantic argument that misses the point. While I don't think people that occasionally look at porn really have much to worry about, and probably have much more significant things in their life they could spend their energy,* there ARE more than a few members of the Church (and non-members) that have a significant porn habit and want to get rid of it (for a variety of reasons). Many of these same people have found that the same techniques that help people overcome alcoholism and other "addictions" help to overcome porn habits. What the heck is wrong with that? That seems like a good thing that should be encouraged, not something that people should be ridiculed for.

I feel the message that too often gets sent by those that get so hung up on insisting that porn habits don't fit the clinical definition of "addiction" is that people who want to stop looking at porn regularly but can't do it without help are pathetic losers that have no self-control. That a normal, non-pathetic person could just "choose" to stop looking at it without much of a problem. I really don't see how that is at all better than the "guilt" that comes from believing porn consumption is sinful and should be avoided. In fact, I think treating a porn habit as you would treat an addiction (whether it fits the clinical definition or not) actually goes a long way to relieving the "guilt."

* I also agree that treating occasional porn consumption like an addiction (e.g., 12-step programs, etc.) is stupid and potentially harmful. Bishops who refer people that look at porn once a month to an addiction-recovery class need to be corrected. It is harmful to people who don't really have a problem, and to those that have real problems that can benefit from such programs.

[byu71]

I agree with some of what you have said, and disagree with some. For now, I just wanted to address the bold section. I am surprised you have never heard anyone take this position. I guarantee that a significant percentage of active Mormons (especially women) would say that someone who looks at porn once a month is addicted to porn.

Perhaps UVACoug has never participated on CB.

[smokymountainrain]

Now extrapolate that to the general church membership, and ask yourself what is more harmful. A spouse getting aroused at some boobies, or a church structure allowing otherwise good people to feel the weight of judgement from leaders and spouses to make them feel worthless.

I don't recall if I've mentioned it somewhere on this board, but my SP is on a huge "let's stop porn addiction" kick right now. He's even started a 12 step group program just for our Stake. He went around to each of the wards and held special meetings with all the men, then all of the women and yesterday in Stake Conference spoke about porn once again.

As annoying as it is to have somebody who is supposed to be a spiritual leader continually harping on porn, the stance he is taking is somewhat refreshing. He is being very clear that people who struggle with porn use can be and most of the time are very good people. He speaks of the importance of not being judgmental of them. He compared his own sins with that of porn usage and put his sins on the same level. In his talk yesterday he said "I struggle with sin on a daily basis and I don't get judged or treated differently for it, and porn addiction should be viewed no differently". He talks about the 12 step meetings that are held and the spirit that is felt there. He talks about the importance of spouses being forgiving - again comparing the "sin" of porn usage to pretty much any other sin any of us commit on a daily basis.

My point is, while I don't condone this seeming obsession with porn by certain church leaders, the above bolded isn't always true - as much as so many on this board seem to think it is - and I would guess my SP is far from alone among bishops and SPs in terms of how he feels.

[byu71]

I don't recall if I've mentioned it somewhere on this board, but my SP is on a huge "let's stop porn addiction" kick right now. He's even started a 12 step group program just for our Stake. He went around to each of the wards and held special meetings with all the men, then all of the women and yesterday in Stake Conference spoke about porn once again.

As annoying as it is to have somebody who is supposed to be a spiritual leader continually harping on porn, the stance he is taking is somewhat refreshing. He is being very clear that people who struggle with porn use can be and most of the time are very good people. He speaks of the importance of not being judgmental of them. He compared his own sins with that of porn usage and put his sins on the same level. In his talk yesterday he said "I struggle with sin on a daily basis and I don't get judged or treated differently for it, and porn addiction should be viewed no differently". He talks about the 12 step meetings that are held and the spirit that is felt there. He talks about the importance of spouses being forgiving - again comparing the "sin" of porn usage to pretty much any other sin any of us commit on a daily basis.

My point is, while I don't condone this seeming obsession with porn by certain church leaders, the above bolded isn't always true - as much as so many on this board seem to think it is - and I would guess my SP is far from alone among bishops and SPs in terms of how he feels.

Your SP seems like a good man with his heart in the right place when it comes to judging others.

I do wonder what his definition of porn is? I wonder what his sins are he is speaking off? If his definition of porn is the same as mine and he is commiting sins equivalent to participating in what I consider porn, then I would be a harsher judge and would hope his sins aren't on the same level.

Luckily, I am not having to judge anyone, but on my scale of sin, watching what I consider to be porn is a more grievous sin than the WOW.

[smokymountainrain]

Your SP seems like a good man with his heart in the right place when it comes to judging others.

I do wonder what his definition of porn is? I wonder what his sins are he is speaking off? If his definition of porn is the same as mine and he is commiting sins equivalent to participating in what I consider porn, then I would be a harsher judge and would hope his sins aren't on the same level.

Luckily, I am not having to judge anyone, but on my scale of sin, watching what I consider to be porn is a more grievous sin than the WOW.

I think his point is, we simply shouldn't be judging people for their sins, period. That it's not our place to rank sins.

[TripletDaddy]

I think his point is, we simply shouldn't be judging people for their sins, period. That it's not our place to rank sins.

It doesn't have to be our place when the ranking has been done already. We know that denying the Holy Ghost is first, murder/innocent blood is second, and sexual sin is third. We also know that it is preferable to have our children die than for them to have premarital sex. Those are some pretty good rankings, for starters.

[byu71]

I think his point is, we simply shouldn't be judging people for their sins, period. That it's not our place to rank sins.

While hard to do, at least for me, if that is his point I think it is a good one.


The facts are though there is a ranking. Whatever sins he has, he is still able to be a SP. The sin of say, having wine at dinner will keep you from attending the Temple.

Again though, that isn't my job fortunately.

[smokymountainrain]

It doesn't have to be our place when the ranking has been done already. We know that denying the Holy Ghost is first, murder/innocent blood is second, and sexual sin is third. We also know that it is preferable to have our children die than for them to have premarital sex. Those are some pretty good rankings, for starters.

Touche'. I'll be sure to remind my SP of those rankings.

[Uncle Ted]

All this talk about punography and sexual sin outside of the priesthood session has made me curious why it has expanded to a wider audience...

Women and Pornography

• 13% of Women admit to accessing pornography at work.
• 70% of women keep their cyber activities secret.
• 17% of all women struggle with pornography addiction.
• Women, far more than men, are likely to act out their behaviors in real life, such as having multiple partners, casual sex, or affairs.
• Women favor chat rooms 2X more than men.
• 1 of 3 visitors to all adult web sites are women.
• 9.4 million women access adult web sites each month.

https://wsr.byu.edu/pornographystats

Maybe it is time that women were ordained.

[Walter Sobchak]

A small headline on the cover of the April 2014 Monitor caught my eye... "Is Pornography Addictive?"

Pornography is a loaded subject. Opponents argue that it can ruin marriages, lead to sexual addiction or other unhealthy behaviors, and encourage sexual aggression.

Proponents claim that erotica can enhance sex lives, provide a safe recreational outlet and perhaps even reduce the incidence of sexual assault. (After pornography was legalized in Denmark in 1969, for instance, researchers reported a corresponding decline in sexual aggression.)

But in some ways, both arguments are moot: Whether or not you think it's moral, the fact is, people like porn. Various international studies have put porn consumption rates at 50 percent to 99 percent among men, and 30 percent to 86 percent among women, according to Gert Martin Hald, PhD, and colleagues in The APA Handbook of Sexuality and Psychology (Vol. 2).

"Porn is practically ubiquitous," says Ana Bridges, PhD, a psychologist at the University of Arkansas. And the Internet has made it easier than ever to get an erotic fix. The late sex researcher Alvin Cooper, PhD, called this the "triple-A engine" effect: The accessibility, affordability and anonymity provided by the Web have put adult content right at our fingertips.

Many people argue that's a good thing. In a 2002 survey conducted for PBS/Frontline by the Kinsey Institute for Research in Sex, Gender and Reproduction at Indiana University, 86 percent of respondents said porn can educate people, and 72 percent said it provides a harmless outlet for fantasies. Among those who reported using pornography, 80 percent said they felt "fine" about it.

"There are a lot of people out there using a lot of porn who have no problems with it whatsoever," says Erick Janssen, PhD, a senior scientist at the Kinsey Institute. "So when does it become an addiction?"

That, of course, is a key question for researchers trying to understand pornography's dark side.

[...]

Putting a label on a porn habit isn't an idle exercise. Understanding what drives the behavior is a necessary step toward designing effective treatments for people who can't control the urge.

While science is far from settling this debate, some treatment programs continue to push the idea that porn is an addiction. "There's a tremendous treatment industry that needs this to be a disease — a thing they can charge people to treat," Prause says.

But promoting certain therapies may be ill-advised. "You can harm patients by using treatment models that aren't research-supported," Prause says.

Whether or not pornography is a diagnosable addiction, it's clear it hurts some people. For them, there just isn't much evidence about how best to control this behavior. "There is a real dearth of good, evidence-based therapeutic literature," Voon says.

Embedded in the middle of the article is a shout out to BYU researchers on the subject.

[Donuthole]

Act now!
Don't delay!
Porn proof all your kids today!

http://pornproofkids.com/2014/04/14/...ost=v2#content