Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in the News

[creekster]

I don't think that's clear at all. There are plenty of people who binge drink in college and don't later in life.

You're assuming she's a one drink alcoholic, which may very well be true. It also may be true that stress making up for lost time, and it was all triggered by a stressful situation. I know of at least middle aged woman that is currently about 4-5 months sober whom that describes perfectly. Hadn't touched alcohol until her 30s, was in inpatient rehab a year ago.
I can tell you a dozen other late alcohol users who aren't necessarily alcoholics, but doing really stupid things because they're new and stupid at it. Shaka seems to agree.

So I guess you're buying your kids fifths of scotch got their birthdays do they can, you know, get it over with?

[ERCougar]

So I guess you're buying your kids fifths of scotch got their birthdays do they can, you know, get it over with?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm doing.


Another one that I can't believe I didn't think of earlier. I know him really well. No drinks until his 30s, now has 3 duis, no drivers license, and is waiting for a court date to determine how long he'll be in jail. Oh, and started shortly after his divorce. And his three kids are now permanently with their mother.

Of course, none of this implies that not drinking in college means you'll end up a childless alcoholic in your later years, nor even that your risk of it is higher. Of course, I never said that, but there are apparently some hackles raised, so I thought i should restate it. I did say that this should have happened in college instead, with a lot fewer victims and a lesser impact on her life. I don't think that's really debatable. Might it have prevented this? Maybe, maybe not. I definitely learned a few lessons when I was younger that prevented stupid mistakes later.

[hostile]

Yes, that's exactly what I'm doing.


Another one that I can't believe I didn't think of earlier. I know him really well. No drinks until his 30s, now has 3 duis, no drivers license, and is waiting for a court date to determine how long he'll be in jail. Oh, and started shortly after his divorce. And his three kids are now permanently with their mother.

Of course, none of this implies that not drinking in college means you'll end up a childless alcoholic in your later years, nor even that your risk of it is higher. Of course, I never said that, but there are apparently some hackles raised, so I thought i should restate it. I did say that this should have happened in college instead, with a lot fewer victims and a lesser impact on her life. I don't think that's really debatable. Might it have prevented this? Maybe, maybe not. I definitely learned a few lessons when I was younger that prevented stupid mistakes later.

My BIL started drinking in HS / college. He's now divorced (due to alcohol) and working on killing a second liver. He has a poor relationship with his kids/parents/siblings. I don't know what the right answer is but that's my anecdote.

[falafel]

Yes, that's exactly what I'm doing.


Another one that I can't believe I didn't think of earlier. I know him really well. No drinks until his 30s, now has 3 duis, no drivers license, and is waiting for a court date to determine how long he'll be in jail. Oh, and started shortly after his divorce. And his three kids are now permanently with their mother.

Of course, none of this implies that not drinking in college means you'll end up a childless alcoholic in your later years, nor even that your risk of it is higher. Of course, I never said that, but there are apparently some hackles raised, so I thought i should restate it. I did say that this should have happened in college instead, with a lot fewer victims and a lesser impact on her life. I don't think that's really debatable. Might it have prevented this? Maybe, maybe not. I definitely learned a few lessons when I was younger that prevented stupid mistakes later.

What you seem to be implying is that if it had happened in college, it wouldn't be happening now. I just don't see how you can draw that conclusion at all.

[ERCougar]

What you seem to be implying is that if it had happened in college, it wouldn't be happening now. I just don't see how you can draw that conclusion at all.

Off the top of my head: Because people learn from their mistakes? Because responsible alcohol doesn't usually come naturally? Because one-drink alcoholics are far less common than college binge-drinkers who wise up with experience? Because I can list off a dozen people without thinking whose first year of drinking, whether it was in their 20s or 40s, looked pretty ugly, but they eventually figured things out?

This is such a strange point to contest.

[myboynoah]

Off the top of my head: Because people learn from their mistakes? Because responsible alcohol doesn't usually come naturally? Because one-drink alcoholics are far less common than college binge-drinkers who wise up with experience? Because I can list off a dozen people without thinking whose first year of drinking, whether it was in their 20s or 40s, looked pretty ugly, but they eventually figured things out?

This is such a strange point to contest.

lol

[All-American]

Sounds to me like you avoid a lot of problems by just not drinking at any age. Maybe those mormons are on to something after all.

[Solon]

Off the top of my head: Because people learn from their mistakes? Because responsible alcohol doesn't usually come naturally? Because one-drink alcoholics are far less common than college binge-drinkers who wise up with experience? Because I can list off a dozen people without thinking whose first year of drinking, whether it was in their 20s or 40s, looked pretty ugly, but they eventually figured things out?

This is such a strange point to contest.

The fact that people are arguing with ER on this is silly. If you're going to cut loose a little, the collateral damage for experimenting with drugs & booze & sex & losing a few inhibitions is much less when you're a college-aged kid than when you're a parent of 5.

She was probably a crazy fanatical mormon. I'll bet she never kissed a boy in high school and avoided Barq's root beer for the caffeine content. I'll bet she attended rick's college & never, ever wore a single-strap backpack that split the defenders.

The most tightly wound seem to swing to the far opposite end of the spectrum when they let go.

[ERCougar]

Sounds to me like you avoid a lot of problems by just not drinking at any age. Maybe those mormons are on to something after all.

I actually agree with this. For me, alcohol use is not a smart decision. It's not healthy, it can get you into bad situations, I think it sends a confusing message to kids for adults to even do it responsibly in front of them, etc. But it has never had a draw for me (not saying that I've never partaken). If my kids are curious, no, I won't buy them a fifth, and I think they should obey the law, but I'd much rather them figure out their own relationship with it in college than to yield to some societal/religious pressure not to partake, only to break down twenty years later. I've just seen too many times where the curiosity wins out eventually, and with ugly results.

Also, I have alcohol superpowers. Zero effect on me.

[Donuthole]

I'd much rather them figure out their own relationship with it in college thento yield to some societal/religious pressure not to partake, only to break down twenty years later. I've just seen too many times where the curiosity wins out eventually, and with ugly results.

This seems like a strange progression to prefer, considering your overarching premise.

[ERCougar]

This seems like a strange progression to prefer, considering your overarching premise.

Ha, fixed.

[CardiacCoug]

I actually agree with this. For me, alcohol use is not a smart decision. It's not healthy, it can get you into bad situations, I think it sends a confusing message to kids for adults to even do it responsibly in front of them, etc. But it has never had a draw for me (not saying that I've never partaken). If my kids are curious, no, I won't buy them a fifth, and I think they should obey the law, but I'd much rather them figure out their own relationship with it in college than to yield to some societal/religious pressure not to partake, only to break down twenty years later. I've just seen too many times where the curiosity wins out eventually, and with ugly results.

Also, I have alcohol superpowers. Zero effect on me.

Surprised you didn't become a raging alcoholic you know since you didn't learn to drink responsibly in college.

I'm gonna stand by my statement that the later in life people start to drink, the better. Your experience with alcohol seems typical (to me) of LDS people who decide they might as well drink a little as adults -- they're not into it, their mature and fully developed brain is less prone to addiction and they drink extremely responsibly. Obviously there are a few exceptions.

[Shaka]

Any data on this?

I think statistically it's very rare for people who don't start to drink alcohol until their mid-20s or later to become alcoholics. The vast majority of alcoholics started drinking as teens, no?

I've personally never met an ex-Mo who didn't drink until mid-20s or later who developed a drinking problem. That's my anecdote.

Purely anecdotal

I'm a mid-single and I mostly associate with divorced women. Divorced LDS women tend to get depressed and try all kinds of stuff to get better. It's very common for them to try to salve the depression by becoming sexually active, drinking, or both. In fact it's usually both. Some can't handle it and develop a drinking problem.

[ERCougar]

Surprised you didn't become a raging alcoholic you know since you didn't learn to drink responsibly in college.

I'm gonna stand by my statement that the later in life people start to drink, the better. Your experience with alcohol seems typical (to me) of LDS people who decide they might as well drink a little as adults -- they're not into it, their mature and fully developed brain is less prone to addiction and they drink extremely responsibly. Obviously there are a few exceptions.

Well, actually, you might be right a little about me, and maybe that's why I feel so sad for this woman and her kids. Had alcohol had a real appeal for me, I easily could have been her (well, not quite, but you get the idea). Not drinking wasn't a decision I made for any good rational reason--it was because I thought God didn't want me to (or maybe I just wanted to fit in at BYU). Once that whole idea fell, if alcohol had been appealing, I don't really want to think about how I might have pursued it.

I don't disagree with you that in an ideal world, no one would start drinking young. In fact, I think I said as much in a thread I started about a new word of wisdom that should replace our current bizarre one--25 was the age I suggested. But that decision needs to come from within, based on rational thinking and a healthy respect for the dangers of alcohol, not from an external religious authority. The problem with the Mormon approach is that 1) alcohol is strictly forbidden, giving it an extra appeal it doesn't really deserve and 2) "thus saith the Lord" sort of discourages any rational thinking (think teenage pregnancy and STDs in religious communities). Overall, maybe the Mormon approach leads to lower levels of alcoholism in the aggregate, but on the individual level, it can get really ugly.

I don't think every kid should try alcohol at 21, but I do think they should make the decision rationally and free of any religious overtones. If you're going to experiment, do it when you're not going to hurt anyone but yourself. Call it the Rumspringa approach.

Of course, bad decisions happen in and out of Mormonism. I honestly don't have any advice for the Church, except that I think sending out missionaries at 18 as a rule is a really bad idea. All I really care about is my kids, and I see this woman's story as a warning sign against overly restrictive/moralistic parenting. Really, all I originally said was that I wish she had done this in college instead. That's not really debatable, is it?

[CardiacCoug]

Purely anecdotal

I'm a mid-single and I mostly associate with divorced women. Divorced LDS women tend to get depressed and try all kinds of stuff to get better. It's very common for them to try to salve the depression by becoming sexually active, drinking, or both. In fact it's usually both. Some can't handle it and develop a drinking problem.

Sure I don't doubt that.

Just a shame that these women didn't get deeply involved in drinking and promiscuity earlier in life. Then they would have learned from their mistakes and been much less likely to do that stuff after divorce and depression. That's how it works right?

The only thing I'm objecting to is this idea that people get inoculated against bad behavior in middle age by their bad behavior earlier in life. I guarantee that's not how it works.