Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in the News

[Color Me Badd Fan]

#handisonloadedgungoaheadmakemyday

[scottie]

Hmm. If he really wanted a gun fight why didn't he get out of the the vehicle with his gun out? I don't understand why he would get out of his vehicle with all the guns pointed at him and not holding a weapon if he truly wanted to go out in a blaze of glory. I wish there was audio for both stops. I'd love to hear what the officers where saying at the first stop.

With how fast his truck looked to be traveling when it plowed into that snowbank, seatbelt or not, I doubt he'd be able to recall what he really/truly was wanting when he stepped out of the vehicle.

[TexTechCoug]

With how fast his truck looked to be traveling when it plowed into that snowbank, seatbelt or not, I doubt he'd be able to recall what he really/truly was wanting when he stepped out of the vehicle.

Audio would certainly be interesting. He certainly seems disoriented when he exits the vehicle. His hands are up and then they go down and he does a quick two-step.

Not that he hadn't made a series of very poor decisions that led directly to his death, starting with leaving his family and ranch in Arizona to be part of this nonsense, but it does look like he exits with his hands in the air and the explanation that he was shot and reached down because he was hit in the side doesn't seem to far fetched based on the video. Maybe they were try to subdue him with non-lethal mini-bean bags or something else, because the way he dances, reaches for his side, and circles seems bizarre.

If an autopsy showed that he was shot multiple times and one of those was to his abdomen that is going to look pretty bad. Gut shooting a guy with his hands in the air and then putting another round in his head from behind is pretty poor form. Even if a guy isn't following commands it is difficult to argue that a man with his hands in the air who is standing still somehow poses an immediate threat to anyone. It is worth considering that both Finicum and all the guys in the SUV were known to be armed and they had just attempted a dangerous escape, so it isn't just a run of the mill traffic stop.

The other almost inexplicable thing from the video is the officer who decided he was going to somehow stop a speeding SUV with his body. Not sure what he was thinking, but he is very fortunate to not have been killed.

[TexTechCoug]

This is not an unarmed innocent black kid...

Easily my favorite and overused way to describe Michael Brown

[Flystripper]

The other almost inexplicable thing from the video is the officer who decided he was going to somehow stop a speeding SUV with his body. Not sure what he was thinking, but he is very fortunate to not have been killed.

I think the officer thought the car he was in or standing next to was going to get rammed. So he tried to jump out of the way and then the dude swerves to miss the blockade and the officer almost got hit.

[Joe Public]

Viking would've never had this problem.

[byu71]

Easily my favorite and overused way to describe Michael Brown

Is Michael Brown the young man who was used to start the hands up movement. Several young black men were shot and became high profile. I don't remember the names with each circumstance.

[creekster]

Audio would certainly be interesting. He certainly seems disoriented when he exits the vehicle. His hands are up and then they go down and he does a quick two-step.

Not that he hadn't made a series of very poor decisions that led directly to his death, starting with leaving his family and ranch in Arizona to be part of this nonsense, but it does look like he exits with his hands in the air and the explanation that he was shot and reached down because he was hit in the side doesn't seem to far fetched based on the video. Maybe they were try to subdue him with non-lethal mini-bean bags or something else, because the way he dances, reaches for his side, and circles seems bizarre.

If an autopsy showed that he was shot multiple times and one of those was to his abdomen that is going to look pretty bad. Gut shooting a guy with his hands in the air and then putting another round in his head from behind is pretty poor form. Even if a guy isn't following commands it is difficult to argue that a man with his hands in the air who is standing still somehow poses an immediate threat to anyone. It is worth considering that both Finicum and all the guys in the SUV were known to be armed and they had just attempted a dangerous escape, so it isn't just a run of the mill traffic stop.

The other almost inexplicable thing from the video is the officer who decided he was going to somehow stop a speeding SUV with his body. Not sure what he was thinking, but he is very fortunate to not have been killed.

It's too bad he was killed. But I am going to give the cops a lot of latitude here. Like you said, Lavoy made a series of very poor decisions that led directly to his death. I think that pretty much sums it up.

I don't understand these guys. What do they hope to achieve? Did they think there would be a mass uprising around them? If not, and if they didnt have enough adherents to muster a reasonably robust armed insurrection, then what's the point? I can see seeking to publish your views, but this was just a bizarre episode. It is not like Ruby Ridge or Waco as these guys came from some other place to break and enter and occupy. They werent defending home and hearth or their own town. It makes no sense to me whatsoever.

[TexTechCoug]

Is Michael Brown the young man who was used to start the hands up movement. Several young black men were shot and became high profile. I don't remember the names with each circumstance.

Michael Brown is the kid from Ferguson and when the media refers to him they always say "Michael Brown, an unarmed black teenager, shot to death by a white police officer."

[Jeff Lebowski]

Easily my favorite and overused way to describe Michael Brown

I honestly wasn't referring to him specifically.

[RC Vikings]

I don't understand these guys. What do they hope to achieve? Did they think there would be a mass uprising around them? If not, and if they didnt have enough adherents to muster a reasonably robust armed insurrection, then what's the point? I can see seeking to publish your views, but this was just a bizarre episode. It is not like Ruby Ridge or Waco as these guys came from some other place to break and enter and occupy. They werent defending home and hearth or their own town. It makes no sense to me whatsoever.

It's just part of the lunatic fringe of what's been heating up at least across the intermountain west. Julie Rowe, running to the hills, huge storage of guns and ammo. These people really aren't worried about the Russians or Chinese coming into this country, they are afraid of troops being lead by Obama or Clinton taking everything they have. These guys were just looking for a fight and the Hammonds gave them one.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Audio would certainly be interesting. He certainly seems disoriented when he exits the vehicle. His hands are up and then they go down and he does a quick two-step.

Not that he hadn't made a series of very poor decisions that led directly to his death, starting with leaving his family and ranch in Arizona to be part of this nonsense, but it does look like he exits with his hands in the air and the explanation that he was shot and reached down because he was hit in the side doesn't seem to far fetched based on the video. Maybe they were try to subdue him with non-lethal mini-bean bags or something else, because the way he dances, reaches for his side, and circles seems bizarre.

Not sure what it bizarre about it. He had people pointing guns at him from both sides and he had a loaded pistol in his coat pocket.

If an autopsy showed that he was shot multiple times and one of those was to his abdomen that is going to look pretty bad. Gut shooting a guy with his hands in the air and then putting another round in his head from behind is pretty poor form. Even if a guy isn't following commands it is difficult to argue that a man with his hands in the air who is standing still somehow poses an immediate threat to anyone. It is worth considering that both Finicum and all the guys in the SUV were known to be armed and they had just attempted a dangerous escape, so it isn't just a run of the mill traffic stop.

Not following your logic here. How is a bullet to his abdomen proof that his hands were in the air when they shot him? Did I miss something?

The other almost inexplicable thing from the video is the officer who decided he was going to somehow stop a speeding SUV with his body. Not sure what he was thinking, but he is very fortunate to not have been killed.

I suspect he was thinking that the truck was going to strike the vehicle he was hiding behind so he was getting out the way, only to have the truck veer into the same snowbank. He is very lucky to be alive.

[old_gregg]

It's too bad he was killed.

i'm not convinced this is true

[TexTechCoug]

I think evidence showing they shot him in the flank or abdomen when his hands were up would look pretty bad, even though I can't disagree with the use of deadly force.

I certainly thought the little dance he did after he put his hands up seemed odd. I don't know where his gun was, or if he was attempting to get his gun. The story that he hands were up and that he only put them down after he was shot is just as plausible based on the video evidence as the explanation that he was trying to remove his gun. Like others have said, if he wanted to go down in a blaze of glory shooting as he went it made no sense to exit the vehicle without a gun in hand and put his hands in the air.

Evidence indicating he was shot in the abdomen would certain lend itself to the narrative being peddled by the Bundys that he had his hands up and was shot. When else would he have been gut shot if not when his hands were up? His hands were up, they came down to his side as he danced and began to circle and then he was obviously shot in the head. Another reasonable explanation is that they attempted to use bean bags or something else to subdue him and he put his hands down, rather than following commands, and ended up getting shot.

I don't think the FBI did anything wrong, but I don't think the video evidence from a helicopter is clear cut. While the FBI narrative is certainly reasonable and the shooting was justified, I don't think the explanation that he was going for his gun after exiting the SUV makes much sense. That being said he was probably pretty disoriented from the both the fight or flight response from the high speed escape attempt and the subsequent crash.

Maybe the FBI agent thought they were going to hit his vehicle, but he certainly dashed the wrong direction, even if one SUV had struck the other, where he went was directly into the area that one vehicle or the other was going to end up. Split second decisions are difficult and whether he was trying to stop the SUV or get out of the way he chose the wrong way.

[Topper]

It's just part of the lunatic fringe of what's been heating up at least across the intermountain west. Julie Rowe, running to the hills, huge storage of guns and ammo. These people really aren't worried about the Russians or Chinese coming into this country, they are afraid of troops being lead by Obama or Clinton taking everything they have. These guys were just looking for a fight and the Hammonds gave them one.

Mind you, I don't agree with them, so hear me out without meaning I agree, because I don't.

I spoke with a reasonably intelligent person, who does not agree but sympathizes with their plight.

You have a bunch of old style ranchers who have fought the BLM for many decades. In many instances, not speaking to the Bundys specifically, the BLM has acted improperly or in an overbearing manner. They believe they don't have the money to fight them in courts because it doesn't cost the BLM anything and nothing can be done to stop. They can cite Judge Jones who spoke harshly against the BLM's practices and was recently thrown off a case involving the government. So basically, these guys believe they are backed into a corner with no options. If you back a tired, hopeless group of individuals, they will do crazy things. They hoped the spotlight might draw favorable attention to their cause. However, they lack the media savvy to make this happen. They also lack the numbers needed to sway the government. That is their perspective in another light. I believe their tactics are foolish but agree they don't have any options to change the direction of the bureaucracy.