Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in the News

[clackamascoug]

In the past 20 years, I've seen two people pulled from the podium. In those cases it wasn't hard to make the call at all. We've also had non-members come forward and be really awkward and impolite, but like Cousin Eddy's dog... we just let them finish.

Of course my best story was the knife wielding assailant who had threatened the life of the Bishop. Police were called and the perp ran across the top of the pews before being tazed into submission. The most interesting part of that day was the unspoken cooperation between the cognizant brethren to surround the guy and herding the women and children out of the chapel. We had no less than 6 men wrap their suit jackets around their left arms ready to take on the attacker.

[creekster]

Is it really that simple? What about someone making allegations that could reasonably constitute libel? For example, what is someone gets up and starts making criminal allegations against someone in the audience? What if someone gets up and starts dropping f-bombs? Churches are private organizations. It is perfectly reasonable for local leaders to have the right to remove people under certain circumstances.

I agree with you here completely. It is one thing to sit at your keyboard in your office and ponder the language of the handbook and then provide sage advice on handling the almost infinite array of possible situations that might arise. It is another thing completely to be sitting there on the stand and have to make a call when you are not sure what is going to be said or happen; whether the speaker will be violent, threatening, or crude etc. As much sympathy as I have for this woman, for example, and I do, I do not fault the leaders for ushering her off. The F&T pulpit is not Speakers' Corner. It has a designated purpose and subject. The called church leaders are in charge of that forum and property and should be allowed to do what they did, as long as they are acting reasonably.

[Eddie]

Except she's in the midst of litigation. That's the appropriate means of seeking justice and/or restitution. And it's why it's so problematic for her cheerleader to have encouraged this. It's a bad look to tell a judge presiding over your case that you had to do this because it was the only way of getting justice. It's the judge's ongoing job to help ensure justice in this case is done.

I wonder if the litigation referred to here also plays a role in the church's response. I imagine they are being super careful about what they say, knowing that it may be used against them in a court of law.

[wuapinmon]

One morning in New Orleans, a guy none of us had ever seen before, nor ever saw again, was sitting in the front row 30 minutes before church started. He looked Mormonish, but seemed a little intense for a Sunday morning, like there was the faintest soupcon of crazy in his eyes. It's F&T meeting.

About midway through, there's a lull, and he stands up and comes up to the pulpit. He then says something like, "I'd like to bear my testimony. Dr. Pepper is the best-tasting soft drink there is. In the Name of Jesus Christ, Amen." I said "Amen" even though it's Cherry Coke. He walked straight out into the hallway, down the hallway, and out the door.

[clackamascoug]

One morning in New Orleans, a guy none of us had ever seen before, nor ever saw again, was sitting in the front row 30 minutes before church started. He looked Mormonish, but seemed a little intense for a Sunday morning, like there was the faintest soupcon of crazy in his eyes. It's F&T meeting.

About midway through, there's a lull, and he stands up and comes up to the pulpit. He then says something like, "I'd like to bear my testimony. Dr. Pepper is the best-tasting soft drink there is. In the Name of Jesus Christ, Amen." I said "Amen" even though it's Cherry Coke. He walked straight out into the hallway, down the hallway, and out the door.

That's the great thing about truth - it's universal.

[Jeff Lebowski]

One morning in New Orleans, a guy none of us had ever seen before, nor ever saw again, was sitting in the front row 30 minutes before church started. He looked Mormonish, but seemed a little intense for a Sunday morning, like there was the faintest soupcon of crazy in his eyes. It's F&T meeting.

About midway through, there's a lull, and he stands up and comes up to the pulpit. He then says something like, "I'd like to bear my testimony. Dr. Pepper is the best-tasting soft drink there is. In the Name of Jesus Christ, Amen." I said "Amen" even though it's Cherry Coke. He walked straight out into the hallway, down the hallway, and out the door.

Clearly one of the three nephites.

[Lost Student]

Clearly one of the three nephites.

Or our very own Clack.

Q to ponder: Has anybody seen the three Nephites and Clack in the same room?

[Moliere]

I’m so glad I no longer operate the mic and wouldn’t have to deal with this type of situation. In my time serving I never had a big issue like this come up. We had our share of quirky things, but never someone that intentionally wanted to disrupt the meeting. I would sometimes get texts from nervous members asking about certain people that were in the congregation that looked suspect, but our bishop made it a point to shake everyone’s hand and introduce himself prior to the meeting. We often started five minutes late but it was great to know that most of the unknown people were usually from a different ward in the stake or were family of members in the ward. But there was always a nervous feeling that something really weird was going to happen during open mic church and thankfully it never did in my four years.

I think the bishop handled his situation very well save for touching the lady, but he was gentle enough in doing so that I don’t have an issue with it. She had been asked to leave and refused, at which point she is trespassing. I’d honestly be worried she was going to do something more crazy so I have no issues with the bishop using some physical force to take control of the situation. The lady has no right (personally or legally) to be at that pulpit once she is asked to leave and if the situation escalated (remember the guy that shot and killed someone in a church a couple months ago?) because the bishop just sat and did nothing or had the congregation sing a song, the dehlinites would be up in arms about why the bishop didn’t do something and why the church didn’t do something.

[MartyFunkhouser]

Sure she made the decision to do it; it might even have been her idea. But if she was really raped in the MTC and ignored about it for decades then I will give her a bit of a pass. I'm sure that would mess someone up. But it is a shame she doesn't have people around her that are truly concerned with her healing first of all and inlfuencinf the church to avoid anything like this in the future second of all. If she did have those people around her they would certainly talk her out of this stuff. People like NNNoah and Dehlin are bad people because they cloak their own axe grinding and fame-seeking in feigned concern for those they exploit.

I agree.

[MartyFunkhouser]

Is it really that simple? What about someone making allegations that could reasonably constitute libel? For example, what is someone gets up and starts making criminal allegations against someone in the audience? What if someone gets up and starts dropping f-bombs? Churches are private organizations. It is perfectly reasonable for local leaders to have the right to remove people under certain circumstances.

If someone is up there saying things that are libel. Cut the mic and call the police to trespass her from the premises. The LDS church will have no liability for the libel. If someone gets up and makes criminal allegations against someone in the audience, cut the mic and call the police to trespass her from the premises. If someone is dropping f-bombs, cut the mic and call the police to trespass her from the premises.

It is not perfectly reasonable for church leaders to physically remove someone, with the exception of the person becoming physically violent.

[Jeff Lebowski]

If someone is up there saying things that are libel. Cut the mic and call the police to trespass her from the premises. The LDS church will have no liability for the libel. If someone gets up and makes criminal allegations against someone in the audience, cut the mic and call the police to trespass her from the premises. If someone is dropping f-bombs, cut the mic and call the police to trespass her from the premises.

It is not perfectly reasonable for church leaders to physically remove someone, with the exception of the person becoming physically violent.

Cut the mic. That's funny.

So you are OK with a forcible removal, as long as it is outsourced. Gotcha.

[creekster]

It is not perfectly reasonable for church leaders to physically remove someone, with the exception of the person becoming physically violent.

And they have to wait until violence actually happens? Neither reason nor the law requires that.

[wuapinmon]

So you are OK with a forcible removal, as long as it is outsourced. Gotcha.

Well, isn't that the main thrust of Leviathan? We surrender the monopoly on the use of violence to the State?

[falafel]

Well, isn't that the main thrust of Leviathan? We surrender the monopoly on the use of violence to the State?

Violence, but not necessarily physical means if removal. If someone enters your house without permission, but is not violent an refuses to leave, are you going to call the police and simply wait for them to trespass the person if your property?

[MartyFunkhouser]

Violence, but not necessarily physical means if removal. If someone enters your house without permission, but is not violent an refuses to leave, are you going to call the police and simply wait for them to trespass the person if your property?

Hey, this is a private residence, man.