Fast Offerings

[cougarobgon]

I will just add that, in my limited experience, the disbursement of fast offering funds is possibly the single function that takes the most time, effort, and spiritual discernment by the Bishop. I have had Bishops that I would consider on both the easy and the hard side, but I have been very reluctant to second-guess any of them, and I do not envy their responsibility. While I am sure that we as a Church could do much more, I have seen the tremendous good that comes from this program at the ward level. When multiplied by over 20,000 wards worldwide, the Fast Offering program becomes a huge source of assistance and service in the world. Don't take this the wrong way, I am all for transparancy, self-reflection, and improvement, so I think discussions like this thread are valuable, but I think that they should also exist within the context of the tremendous good that is already done. Call me a Pollyanna if you want.

One thing to keep in mind is that once the donation leaves our pocket book, it no longer is ours and if given in the spirit of charity, we should not concern our selves with how the Church chooses to use it. We may not like the $36 buffett or the lavish JS Mem Building's furnishings, we just have to trust the money is being used for a righteous purpose. I trust my bishop and will not second gues his decision to pay a mortgage or an electric bill.

Excellent post.

I have a couple of friends who are bishops. Both said they have never used fast offering money to make house payments. One guy said he was amazed how many people showed up on his first Sunday with their electric bill, however. All claimed that the power was about to get turned off.

I recall instances when I authorized mortgage/rent payments, but, the members understood that it was temporary asistance maybe 1-2 two months. I authorized many food orders to the bishop's store house and "shopping sprees" to DI. Church members understood that they had 30-60days to either find a second job or dramatically reduce their expenses to just get buy. I would consider myself having been a hard a** bishop, but, when kids were involved, I could not deny temporary assistance to church members, regardless of the stupid choices they made that caused their financial troubles.

[ERCougar]

One thing to keep in mind is that once the donation leaves our pocket book, it no longer is ours and if given in the spirit of charity, we should not concern our selves with how the Church chooses to use it.

Nothing to do with the "spirit of charity". Maybe faith or trust, but not charity. As stewards, I think that we absolutely have a responsibility to evaluate how our charitable contributions are being used.

[myboynoah]

I would consider myself having been a hard a** bishop, but, when kids were involved, I could not deny temporary assistance to church members, regardless of the stupid choices they made that caused their financial troubles.

That's the kicker right there. Kids have no control over the stupid decisions of their parents.

[ERCougar]

I don't think that the shell game, where people get money to pay for food so that they can instead pay for their large house, is much of a problem. In any situation in which I have been involved, no money is disbursed until someone goes in and does a thorough evaluation of the family's finances and budget.

Also, just my opinion, but I feel that your thinking is a little too black and white about it. I think that all of viscerally feel that FO funds should not be used to prop up extravagent or unsustainable lifestyles. Having said that, I can think of several instances where I would not have a problem with funds being used to help someone out who lives in a "large home". And what makes a "large home"? My brother lives in an inner city ward. If you brought his ward out to my home, probably 80% of them would feel that I live in a large and extravagent home. If you asked the saints in a poor ward in Central America or Africa, probably all of our homes would seem luxurious. Does that mean that none of us should qualify for FO funds? I think it is dangerous to make rules about who is worthy for assistance.

Having said that, I think that it is entirely proper, if someone like me needs help, for the Bishop to say "Cancel the satellite and the internet access, and if this takes more than 2 months to resolve, let's get the home on the market."

I mentioned that I didn't think it was very common. And I agree with you about the relative size of homes and needs, which is why I wouldn't be surprised if the US takes in more than it gives out in FO's (I still have no idea if it's true). That may not be a bad thing, since it arguably takes more to survive in the US than in a third world country.

I'm not making any rules about FO funds. I admit that I don't like the idea of anyone in my ward receiving them, except for dire and temporary emergencies, because we're well above the standard of living of even the surrounding community. I mostly wanted to make the point that I find it very strange that we (collectively) have so much and are so unprepared for emergencies. This is more an indictment of our culture than our church, as I would guess that Mormons are probably (hopefully) slightly more prepared financially than most.

[creekster]

Nothing to do with the "spirit of charity". Maybe faith or trust, but not charity. As stewards, I think that we absolutely have a responsibility to evaluate how our charitable contributions are being used.

I think his point is that the bishop becomes the steward. Once given, you are not the steward of those funds.

[ERCougar]

I think his point is that the bishop becomes the steward. Once given, you are not the steward of those funds.

I got that. But that's an issue of trust or faith. Not charity. I think that's a fairly important distinction.

[cougarobgon]

Nothing to do with the "spirit of charity". Maybe faith or trust, but not charity. As stewards, I think that we absolutely have a responsibility to evaluate how our charitable contributions are being used.

What purpose will your evaluation serve? You cannot dictate to the bishop/Church how your fast offerings donations are to be used. Will you stop contributing fast offerings if you find out your funds are being used to pay a mortgage for a mcmansion? How are you going to evaluate it? Other than the bishop and the ward clerk who writes out the check and possibly the RS and Priesthood leaders, you or I don't know how the money is being used. You just have to trust your bishop will put your donations to good use.

[RockyBalboa]

I didn't really want to start an argument here, nor did I want to turn this into a church-bashing thread. I live in a fairly wealthy ward, much of the money made through construction, and I'd be very curious to see how many people are overextended right now with the drop in home building. We live in one of the smallest houses in the ward and I would guess we have a larger income than most, at least now. My wife was in on a conversation with some friends--all good people that I like--who were discussing preparedness recommendations from the church, and it came up that nearly every person in that circle was living paycheck-to-paycheck, with virtually no savings built up. My wife was just floored, as I know several of these families make 6 figure salaries (doctors at the hospital where I work) and the others certainly live like they do, as far as I can tell. Call me the bad son in the parable, but it does bug me a little that there's a chance these people are taking fast offering funds, when so many go hungry in the world.

If this tidbit about the church membership in the US is true, we should be ashamed.

This doesn't surprise me at all.

I was a Physician Recruiter for awhile and one thing I learned about a lot of Doctors....it doesn't matter if you're making 400K/yr if you're still living beyond your means.

[ERCougar]

What purpose will your evaluation serve? You cannot dictate to the bishop/Church how your fast offerings donations are to be used. Will you stop contributing fast offerings if you find out your funds are being used to pay a mortgage for a mcmansion? How are you going to evaluate it? Other than the bishop and the ward clerk who writes out the check and possibly the RS and Priesthood leaders, you or I don't know how the money is being used. You just have to trust your bishop will put your donations to good use.

I'm not changing anything because I know my bishop and I trust him, i.e. I have faith in him based on my evaluation of him. If Rambam is not in the same situation with his bishop, then I'm not going to call him uncharitable.

[Pheidippides]

Question for those that have clerked, bishoped, etc....

It seems that in this thread, "fast offerings" and "tithing" are being used interchangeably.

I was under the assumption that fast offerings went towards food, whereas tithing was used to fund ward budgets, out of which misc items such as rent, a medical bill, specific one-off needs for members, etc. were paid.

Is it all just lumped together? Are fast offerings used to pay the rent for a ward member?

is there really a way to track it?

Here's how it works. I can only speak for my own ward, but I know the numbers and the policies that have been given to us (I'm the clerk).

Let's say you give your bishop $250 in tithing and $50 in fast offerings. That money will eventually find its way into the clerk's office, where a bishopric member and a clerk will count, confirm, and enter it into a computer. You must always have two people to count. Failure to do so is a big deal. Embezzlement of church funds results in immediate excommunication.

Separate entries are made for tithing and fast offerings. However, all money received for any purpose (other than "other" donations) are deposited into a bank account the day they are processed (usually Sunday) and will be swept out of the account the next day into a central SLC account.

All budget numbers, checks, etc. are ultimately centralized. What the clerk has in the "budget" is a made-up number. SLC will keep paying the checks.

The instruction that we receive as to FO usage is that we are not to spend more than we take in. We have a few families in the ward that need assistance, but the amount we take in far exceeds that which we spend. Only the Bishop and the clerks know what goes in and out - the other Bishopric members can look it up if they want, but they don't (in practice).

Our SP carefully audits what we spend. He wants precise and accurate descriptions of what it is spent on.

Our fast offerings go toward medical and psychological/counseling expenses more than anything else. Second to that would be utilities. Occasionally we pay a car or home payment, but I only recall doing that a couple of times - it's never regular, as we intend it to be stopgap. That's consistent with instruction we have received (i.e., no more than one month in rent/car payment - after that, they move or sell the car).

Food is largely taken care of from the Bishop's Storehouse here, so we don't spend on that.

Note that the checks that we write to cover the fast offerings don't come out of a ward account. Nothing does. Wards are forbidden to have them anymore, at least in the US. Everything happens centrally. All of our budget numbers are on paper.

I don't know what happens when the tithing/FO funds hit the church's accounts. I do know that we act as though we have a FO budget and have to stay underneath it (although I know wards do go over when needed).

[Pheidippides]

I wonder if guidelines have changed, or if this is our stake's rule and not church-wide.

I think policy is set at the stake level and not centrally, but the only support I have for that is the variance I see between local areas.

[ERCougar]

This doesn't surprise me at all.

I was a Physician Recruiter for awhile and one thing I learned about a lot of Doctors....it doesn't matter if you're making 400K/yr if you're still living beyond your means.

I hear that "The Millionaire Next Door" makes the same point about doctors.

Here's the trap we're caught in. When people hear that you're a doctor, you're automatically assumed to be rich. So you're expected to give to every cause that comes your way, you're expected to give nice gifts (nicer gifts than you get yourselves or your kids), people think you're a cheapskate if you don't want to go to expensive restaurants with them every weekend, etc. all while the government takes 40% of your money. I can imagine that teenagers are a lot less likely to take the excuse that "we can't buy that because we can't afford it"; we'll see when my kids get older.

It's not a terrible trap to be in, and I certainly wouldn't trade my situation with anyone else, but I think a lot of doctors try to fit the social expectations and get behind.

[ERCougar]

Here's how it works. I can only speak for my own ward, but I know the numbers and the policies that have been given to us (I'm the clerk).

Let's say you give your bishop $250 in tithing and $50 in fast offerings. That money will eventually find its way into the clerk's office, where a bishopric member and a clerk will count, confirm, and enter it into a computer. You must always have two people to count. Failure to do so is a big deal. Embezzlement of church funds results in immediate excommunication.

Separate entries are made for tithing and fast offerings. However, all money received for any purpose (other than "other" donations) are deposited into a bank account the day they are processed (usually Sunday) and will be swept out of the account the next day into a central SLC account.

All budget numbers, checks, etc. are ultimately centralized. What the clerk has in the "budget" is a made-up number. SLC will keep paying the checks.

The instruction that we receive as to FO usage is that we are not to spend more than we take in. We have a few families in the ward that need assistance, but the amount we take in far exceeds that which we spend. Only the Bishop and the clerks know what goes in and out - the other Bishopric members can look it up if they want, but they don't (in practice).

Our SP carefully audits what we spend. He wants precise and accurate descriptions of what it is spent on.

Our fast offerings go toward medical and psychological/counseling expenses more than anything else. Second to that would be utilities. Occasionally we pay a car or home payment, but I only recall doing that a couple of times - it's never regular, as we intend it to be stopgap. That's consistent with instruction we have received (i.e., no more than one month in rent/car payment - after that, they move or sell the car).

Food is largely taken care of from the Bishop's Storehouse here, so we don't spend on that.

Note that the checks that we write to cover the fast offerings don't come out of a ward account. Nothing does. Wards are forbidden to have them anymore, at least in the US. Everything happens centrally. All of our budget numbers are on paper.

I don't know what happens when the tithing/FO funds hit the church's accounts. I do know that we act as though we have a FO budget and have to stay underneath it (although I know wards do go over when needed).

Thanks...that's good to know.

[RockyBalboa]

I guess I'm naive if I choose to believe that the Church helps A LOT of the less fortunate and the needy.

Of course there will be those that decry that it's not enough, but let's be honest here.....is it ever?

Why not focus on a lot of the Good that is done for those in need while continuing to recognize that we still need to be vigilant in our compassion for those who need it?

[Jeff Lebowski]

I hear that "The Millionaire Next Door" makes the same point about doctors.

Yeah, it's not too kind on doctors.