New LDS Church Website: Mormons and Gays

[All-American]

Too bad about the counselor. He could have gotten up after and said "She doesn't have the priesthood so it's not like anything she says matters anyway" and it might not have caused this much of a stir. Yet another instance of it being better to leave it alone, in my opinion, though that's a tough spot to be in.

[Bo Diddley]

I bet these two lines would kill on Reddit!

Say hi to nikuman for us.

[old_gregg]

I wish it wasn't a joke.
https://player.fm/series/celestial-sex/kate-kelly

madre de dios

don't worry guys i took one for the team and listened to this on 2x (thanks overcast!). crazy how any stupid, smug asshole with nothing interesting to say can have a podcast.

[swampfrog]

I'm done looking for information about what actually happened. Satisfied with my conclusions as to why. Last piece that helped me that I haven't seen anywhere is a clear timeline of events, I share that here in hope that it also helps with perspective.

May 7, 2017 Savannah gives prepared speech in church.

This Facebook post goes up on the same day.

https://www.facebook.com/angela.birk...11311314672240

Reddit thread started soon after to discuss Facebook post.

https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/co...whose_mic_was/

May 29, 2017 podcast

http://iliketolookforrainbows.com/20...vannahs-story/

June 14, 2017 video published on YouTube by NewNameNoah

Huff Post June 16, 2017

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b0f15cd5b9e561

New sources all over pick it up and it goes viral, followed by more interviews and podcasts.

[BigFatMeanie]

I'm done looking for information about what actually happened. Satisfied with my conclusions as to why. Last piece that helped me that I haven't seen anywhere is a clear timeline of events, I share that here in hope that it also helps with perspective.

...

So what are your conclusions? Did I miss them earlier in the thread?

[jay santos]

I'm done looking for information about what actually happened. Satisfied with my conclusions as to why. Last piece that helped me that I haven't seen anywhere is a clear timeline of events, I share that here in hope that it also helps with perspective.

May 7, 2017 Savannah gives prepared speech in church.

This Facebook post goes up on the same day.

https://www.facebook.com/angela.birk...11311314672240

Reddit thread started soon after to discuss Facebook post.

https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/co...whose_mic_was/

May 29, 2017 podcast

http://iliketolookforrainbows.com/20...vannahs-story/

June 14, 2017 video published on YouTube by NewNameNoah

Huff Post June 16, 2017

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b0f15cd5b9e561

New sources all over pick it up and it goes viral, followed by more interviews and podcasts.

So, the day after, a person who describes herself as someone who doesn't go to church writes a long post about the event with hashtag #letsmakeachange. Sounds about right to me.

[swampfrog]

So what are your conclusions? Did I miss them earlier in the thread?

I'll share it here, though this thread has already caused me to be snarkier than I like. I'm hesitant because of the amount of vitriol I've seen already while researching various online forums, but since you asked here it is. This is what I believe happened.

I'm satisfied the family was trying to do the best they knew how for their daughter and embarrassing the church or it's leaders was not consciously on their agenda. There is evidence that getting her family completely separated from the church is what the mom would prefer and that she participates in online ex-mo dialog. There is enough going on in the home that is hard that some leeway in my judgment is warranted, 2nd marriage for the mom, 12-year-old is from the first marriage, 4 younger kids with current husband, possible history of sexual abuse for the mom when she was younger. Military family, so extended periods as a single mom. That's a tough home life, adding a child coming out makes it even trickier. Mistakes are going to be made. I feel for all of them.

I think there were some errors in judgment on that part of the family as to the method and timing chosen but I don't see any actual evidence that they were done with the intent to create a public/viral event. As suggested by JL, screening with the Bishop would have gone a long way. I also believe that there were enough spectators that came to support it (in the same way people come for missionary farewells/homecoming talks) that the fact it was recorded is not proof of an agenda. There was a blog post shared earlier about how important it can be for a gay person to feel comfortable coming out to their congregation. Fear of judgment can be much, much worse than the truth. We need to find a way to allow that to happen. Of course the family wanted people there that the daughter could trust, fear of not being accepted by the congregation would have been as real and as great as any fear. As stated in the blog, testimony meeting may not be the best place, but then what is? 12 is way too young for this kind of definitive statement, but that is not as black and white in today's world as I would like it to be. Not everyone is privy to the medical and psychological information about human development that would help them understand why being extra careful and private right now is in everyone's best interest. What should be clear is not always.

This created a situation not intended by the family, but is clear to them and everyone else in hindsight. You show up at a testimony meeting with what looks like an entourage, some with recording devices out, everyone is going to be on edge. The 2nd counselor in the Stake Presidency was put in a tough position and made the best call he thought was needed. He also is a previous Bishop and is currently a member of that ward. That apparently caused the family some discomfort when it was discovered he was sitting in the current Bishop's usual chair, I got a sense from the podcast there was some past possible acrimony between the parties--at least a personality conflict or reservation with management style.

The family did not publicize this at the time of the event even though they could have. Someone in the congregation wrote up their impressions of the event on Facebook the same Sunday it occurred, that was reported on Reddit, and it began to grow organically from there. Twenty-two days after the event the first podcast was done targeted to the LGBT community--after the escalation specifically not initiated by the family (but that the mother at least participated in on some forums). All evidence I've seen says that it was out of their control. Inquiries started to appear in their inbox (through whatever source) about the possibility of taking the story to a bigger audience. At this point, that's another tough choice--but now there is hurt and pain on top of everything else. Given the circumstances, while it's not a decision I want to believe I would have made, they decided to let it out. Someone (family or friends) got the original video to NewNameNoah on Reddit. He edited and pursued as many news outlets as he could because he definitely does have an agenda. The youtube video he uploaded was on June 14. A full 5 weeks after the original event. If there was intent on the part of the family, this would have been out May 8th at the latest.

Most likely the last I'll have to say here on this topic, I do appreciate those that pointed me at further information and clarified the original situation. Back to the photography thread for me.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Most likely the last I'll have to say here on this topic, I do appreciate those that pointed me at further information and clarified the original situation. Back to the photography thread for me.

Hey come on. Your photog thread is awesome, but I have enjoyed reading your perspective on this. Don't be shy.

[cougjunkie]

Lol. I wonder if McDonald's would be threatened by a 12 year old girl because an assistant manager told her to shut up.


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[MartyFunkhouser]

don't worry guys i took one for the team and listened to this on 2x (thanks overcast!). crazy how any stupid, smug asshole with nothing interesting to say can have a podcast.

So you are now officially the board expert on Kate Kelly's sex life. Any and all questions about her sex life will now be directed to you. For the record, I have no questions to ask about her sex life; not interested.

If stupid, smug assholes with nothing interesting to say were prohibited from podcasting, it would eliminate probably 98% of podcasts. John Dehlin's $200.00 per hour transition "counseling" would also fail if this were to happen.

[Pelado]

So you are now officially the board expert on Kate Kelly's sex life. Any and all questions about her sex life will now be directed to you. For the record, I have no questions to ask about her sex life; not interested.

If stupid, smug assholes with nothing interesting to say were prohibited from podcasting, it would eliminate probably 98% of podcasts. John Dehlin's $200.00 per hour transition "counseling" would also fail if this were to happen.

Coaching, not counseling.

[old_gregg]

So you are now officially the board expert on Kate Kelly's sex life. Any and all questions about her sex life will now be directed to you. For the record, I have no questions to ask about her sex life; not interested.

If stupid, smug assholes with nothing interesting to say were prohibited from podcasting, it would eliminate probably 98% of podcasts. John Dehlin's $200.00 per hour transition "counseling" would also fail if this were to happen.

funny enough, kate was somewhat gracious in response to the two horny exmo losers trying to get her to tell them lurid stories

[Bo Diddley]

Hey come on. Your photog thread is awesome, but I have enjoyed reading your perspective on this. Don't be shy.

Agreed. You make some good points, swampfrog.

[swampfrog]

Hey come on. Your photog thread is awesome, but I have enjoyed reading your perspective on this. Don't be shy.

I naturally avoid almost any type of confrontation, been dealing with it my whole life. Has its positives and negatives. I'd participate more but it takes more time and emotional energy than I usually can spare. I've gotten a lot out of reading/lurking here. Challenges to my beliefs and ways of thinking that have been beneficial. There are topics which are more personally motivating.

[falafel]

funny enough, kate was somewhat gracious in response to the two horny exmo losers trying to get her to tell them lurid stories

She went on the exmo sex podcast and didn't put out? Typical Mormon prude.