New LDS Church Website: Mormons and Gays

[jay santos]

Mom leaves the church becomes anti-Mormon.
Mom heavily influences the daughter in her outlook on the church and other things.
Mother and daughter drop out of church attendance, with daughter only attending on rare occasion.
Daughter reads statement in F&T meeting condemning the church's view on LGBT policies.*
Anti-Mormon community exploits the situation.
Mormons react back against the Anti-Mormons.

*It could have been the daughter's idea. It could have been mostly the daughter's opinions. When they invited friends and recorded it they might not have intended it to become what it became. Or it could have been the mother's idea and 100% the mother's words. And intended to create an anti-Mormon icon sympathetic to the public. It doesn't really matter and we probably won't know.

A big question is whether the priesthood leader did the right thing and whether he represents the church. There are 30,000 wards and branches and it likely gets handled 30,000 different ways. Her bishop that wasn't there said he would've allowed the testimony had he been there. There are a lot of extenuating factors that make this impossible to judge, especially the fact that it happened in the heat of the moment, something unplanned, and in those situations humans sometimes do the right thing and sometimes do the wrong thing. It probably was very difficult for that guy to sit there and watch the mother, a known anti-Mormon, who never attends, show up with three rows of LGBT advocates, and watch her daughter dressed up looking like a boy and start reading a written statement that opposed church teachings. I consider myself an LGBT ally, and I'm not sure what I'd do.

[ERCougar]

Mom leaves the church becomes anti-Mormon.
Mom heavily influences the daughter in her outlook on the church and other things.
Mother and daughter drop out of church attendance, with daughter only attending on rare occasion.
Daughter reads statement in F&T meeting condemning the church's view on LGBT policies.*
Anti-Mormon community exploits the situation.
Mormons react back against the Anti-Mormons.

*It could have been the daughter's idea. It could have been mostly the daughter's opinions. When they invited friends and recorded it they might not have intended it to become what it became. Or it could have been the mother's idea and 100% the mother's words. And intended to create an anti-Mormon icon sympathetic to the public. It doesn't really matter and we probably won't know.

A big question is whether the priesthood leader did the right thing and whether he represents the church. There are 30,000 wards and branches and it likely gets handled 30,000 different ways. Her bishop that wasn't there said he would've allowed the testimony had he been there. There are a lot of extenuating factors that make this impossible to judge, especially the fact that it happened in the heat of the moment, something unplanned, and in those situations humans sometimes do the right thing and sometimes do the wrong thing. It probably was very difficult for that guy to sit there and watch the mother, a known anti-Mormon, who never attends, show up with three rows of LGBT advocates, and watch her daughter dressed up looking like a boy and start reading a written statement that opposed church teachings. I consider myself an LGBT ally, and I'm not sure what I'd do.

"Condemning" is the word you would use for what she said? Really? Did you actually watch it or are you guessing?

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

I like that ER doesn't believe a man would bow to the wishes of his wife. At least you share a worldview with old_gregg's persona.

[jay santos]

"Condemning" is the word you would use for what she said? Really? Did you actually watch it or are you guessing?

Watched it. Listened to the podcasts.

OK strike out "condemn" and replace with "oppose", I'm fine with that. Although I think condemn is reasonable. She says that God sides with her, in wanting gay people to marry. ftr: I think she's right. But that definitely opposes church doctrine and policy. You're probably right. Condemn is probably too strong.

[Jeff Lebowski]

That's funny, ER. The kid wanted to do it, so the parents had no choice but to allow it and support it. I sure hope you don't parent that way.

I am sorry, but letting a 12-yr-old publicly declare her sexuality is ridiculous. I don't care what the setting is.

[Northwestcoug]

Some people have dismissed her remarks because they were written out in advance. That's a little ridiculous. Unless you know kids who are comfortable speaking in front of large crowds, most children are going to be very nervous sharing something that important to them. My 9 year old daughter wrote out her first testimony for F&T meeting because she was nervous. She was also political; shortly after 9/11 she gave thanks that she didn't live in a country that forced women to wear certain clothes (no parent coaching there; honest!). Hell, I've seen adults write out testimonies or other speaking engagements that you typically don't see notes. My dad wrote out his words for one of my brother's confirmation; he just was nervous in front of crowds.

I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt, even if she asked for adult help writing them. She felt she had something important to say, and she asked for help from those who had given their testimonies before. Since basically all of us are speaking from hearsay, I will say that I heard she had the support from both her ex-mo mom and active dad to give the testimony. I'm not sure if the 'three rows of LGBTQ advocates' has been verified, so I don't know if the SP counselor was reacting to a circus environment or just being heartless. If the latter, shame on him. Her testimony is actually pretty moving. How many crazy things are shared in F&T meeting, and that gets the boot?!?

I don't know why people are incredulous that a 12 year old can have a basic grasp of her sexuality. Sure, she might be in a 'fluid' state now, but what if she isn't? How many stories have you heard about people knowing at a young age they were gay?

In general, I don't think it was a good idea to edit the video and distribute it to the media, even though I support her cause. The thing I actually reacted most to was the decision to not blur out the counselor's face in the video. That was a dick move. I hate that Dehlin rushed to get her interviewed. Mrs. NWC said someone else (Jerlyn Pool?) interviewed the family before him. If I listen to an interview, It'll be hers. No way will I support his rush for more attention.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I don't know why people are incredulous that a 12 year old can have a basic grasp of her sexuality. Sure, she might be in a 'fluid' state now, but what if she isn't? How many stories have you heard about people knowing at a young age they were gay?

Seriously?

Yeah some people claim they knew at a very young age, but that still doesn't mean it is a good idea to make a public pronouncement. That is a huge, life-altering event that requires some maturity and help to navigate. And you just answered your own question. She may or may not be in a fluid state. All the more reason to keep it private and wait.

[jay santos]

Maybe this is just showing my ignorance and my "heteroprivilege", but I'm highly concerned the 12 yo is saying or thinking she's a lesbian because of her mom being so vocal on LDS-LGBT issues.

This may not be typical or likely, but it seems like a kid fighting for attention with four younger siblings in a mixed parent situation, mixed faith situation, when mom is constantly talking about LGBT issues, seems like an option for a kid who wants her mother's attention. Dunno.

[Northwestcoug]

Seriously?

Yeah some people claim they knew at a very young age, but that still doesn't mean it is a good idea to make a public pronouncement. That is a huge, life-altering event that requires some maturity and help to navigate. And you just answered your own question. She may or may not be in a fluid state. All the more reason to keep it private and wait.

I'm well aware of the maturity and help needed to navigate coming out. I guess I'm pushing back against a blanket statement that 12 is way too young to come out publicly. It certainly can be for some. But we have no idea about her story. Maybe she has known for a long time and she is ready.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I'm well aware of the maturity and help needed to navigate coming out. I guess I'm pushing back against a blanket statement that 12 is way too young to come out publicly. It certainly can be for some. But we have no idea about her story. Maybe she has known for a long time and she is ready.

That is what, sixth grade? May not even be through puberty yet. And it isn't just her, it is the world she lives in. Friends, kids at school, etc. People complain that we over-sexualize childhood, and I agree. A 12-yr-old is a child in every sense.

Just curious, at what age would you draw the line? 8? 5? 3?

[Green Monstah]

I don't know. I can see why a gay kid who is told that their orientation is a weakness or sin would want to declare that they were made the way God wanted them to be. I also see why the SP member would shut it down. I didn't see the video, but it sounds like he wasn't completely without tact.

What bothers me most is that these type of situations inhibit real dialogue and progress.

[Uncle Ted]

That is what, sixth grade? May not even be through puberty yet. And it isn't just her, it is the world she lives in. Friends, kids at school, etc. People complain that we over-sexualize childhood, and I agree. A 12-yr-old is a child in every sense.

Just curious, at what age would you draw the line? 8? 5? 3?

For their own kids or someone else's? I find my own kids to be mature for their age compared to other people's kids... but, of course, most parents would say that about their own kids given their rose colored glasses.

Yeah, these folks that think 12-yr-olds are still not children need to be called to be scout master or something. That will change their opinion about 12-yr-olds not being children in a big hurry.

[Northwestcoug]

That is what, sixth grade? May not even be through puberty yet. And it isn't just her, it is the world she lives in. Friends, kids at school, etc. People complain that we over-sexualize childhood, and I agree. A 12-yr-old is a child in every sense.

Just curious, at what age would you draw the line? 8? 5? 3?

Oh come on. I'm not drawing any lines. Every kid is different. Is 12 too young for this girl? I don't know. Was 8 too young for one of my family members, who was sufficiently 'gay' enough at that age that everyone was worried about him? And 30 years later with kids he is still dealing with the consequences of not accepting who he was/is?

Why don't you tell me what age you would draw the line at?

[Jeff Lebowski]

Oh come on. I'm not drawing any lines. Every kid is different. Is 12 too young for this girl? I don't know. Was 8 too young for one of my family members, who was sufficiently 'gay' enough at that age that everyone was worried about him? And 30 years later with kids he is still dealing with the consequences of not accepting who he was/is?

I have zero problem with parents discussing these things privately with kids and providing them with all the love and support they need. It is making a public spectacle that is a bad idea. Do children really need to be publicly discussing their sexual attraction?

Do you think your 8-yr-old relative would have been better off declaring a sexual preference in a public event at that age? I doubt it.

Why don't you tell me what age you would draw the line at?

Probably 16-18.

[taekwondave]

That's funny, ER. The kid wanted to do it, so the parents had no choice but to allow it and support it. I sure hope you don't parent that way.

I am sorry, but letting a 12-yr-old publicly declare her sexuality is ridiculous. I don't care what the setting is.

Um... do they let 12-year-old straight girls talk about wanting to marry a worthy priesthood holder in the temple? Is that not a public declaration of their sexuality?