Women teaching patriarchy to women.

[Pheidippides]

Thanks for sharing this experience. I'm more at ease with the idea of the husband being a mouthpiece for the blessings the parents want to mutually give to their children. Still, it'd be really cool to stand in the circle or bless my child myself. I'm decently well-spoken; I don't think Mpfunk has all the claim on eloquence or that men giving blessing has anything to do with respective eloquence.

In our ward before this one, the bishopric would ask the mothers of the baby being blessed to stand up after the baby blessing and said something like, "We want to acknowledge Sister X for her contribution, too." It felt a little forced and cheesy at times, but I think it was that bishop's way of including the mothers in the blessing process. I appreciated that the bishop thought about it enough to do something.

Contribution?!? Hell, she did all the work!

I've seen bishops do similar things for presumably the same reasons.

You're going to get me off on a tangent here on women in the church, but I think we've been doing a bad job of treating women as stakeholders rather than tag-alongs. The church is very much run like a corporation, with all the trappings therein. This is fine and good, I guess, for people like me or you who have experience in the world of business in one way or another. But there are many, many women - certainly a majority in my ward, and my wife included - who do not have any significant experience working and who do not understand, fit in, or grasp that culture (the stay at home mom syndrome). Too often I have seen women such at this, with very meaningful and important contributions to be made, get unintentionally marginalized because the rest of us interact in a certain way. Or even get intimidated because they don't fit in. It doesn't help that the RS/Primary presidents are not even invited to every ward steering meeting.

Again, I think most of that is unintentional, but I have seen it a lot nonetheless.

[fusnik]

Why don't you stand in? There's no restriction (at least that I know of) that precludes a women's presence as a physical participant of a priesthood circle. Joseph F Smith talks about this in Doctrines of Salvation and if memory serves correctly his instruction was simply to make sure the giver made it clear that the blessing was given by those in the circle with the priesthood. Bless your child in your home and invite womever you want.

[Mrs. Funk]

Contribution?!? Hell, she did all the work!

I've seen bishops do similar things for presumably the same reasons.

You're going to get me off on a tangent here on women in the church, but I think we've been doing a bad job of treating women as stakeholders rather than tag-alongs. The church is very much run like a corporation, with all the trappings therein. This is fine and good, I guess, for people like me or you who have experience in the world of business in one way or another. But there are many, many women - certainly a majority in my ward, and my wife included - who do not have any significant experience working and who do not understand, fit in, or grasp that culture (the stay at home mom syndrome). Too often I have seen women such at this, with very meaningful and important contributions to be made, get unintentionally marginalized because the rest of us interact in a certain way. Or even get intimidated because they don't fit in. It doesn't help that the RS/Primary presidents are not even invited to every ward steering meeting.

Again, I think most of that is unintentional, but I have seen it a lot nonetheless.

I think these are very interesting and valid points.

One of the reasons that I hope for mixed-gender presidencies is to force people with different backgrounds and experiences to work together (i.e. corporate-minded men and stay at home moms). I was often frustrated when serving in the all-female primary presidency that it took three hours in a presidency meeting to decide what color to make the bulletin board. I think that men in the church generally don't worry about stuff like this. My viewpoint of "Keep it simple and focus on teaching the kids about Jesus Christ" seemed vetoed in favor of making everything about complex crafts. Maybe this makes my perspective too "corporate" or "male" for the primary presidency?

Men and women in the church can and should learn from each other's different experiences and viewpoints. The current hierarchy and set-up makes that challenging if not impossible in most circumstances.

[Mrs. Funk]

Why don't you stand in? There's no restriction (at least that I know of) that precludes a women's presence as a physical participant of a priesthood circle. Joseph F Smith talks about this in Doctrines of Salvation and if memory serves correctly his instruction was simply to make sure the giver made it clear that the blessing was given by those in the circle with the priesthood. Bless your child in your home and invite womever you want.

Good thoughts. I do love the thought.

I struggle with the idea of being this balls-out about it due to the offense it would inevitably cause our very traditional parents who would, of course, be invited to the baby blessing. I'm not ashamed or embarrassed about my beliefs regarding women and the priesthood, but there are some topics that I cannot and will likely never discuss with my folks without intense amounts of conflict.

[fusnik]

Me and the wifey plan on doing two blessings. We plan on a blessing where both participate spiritually and physically, in which we will communicate our hopes, wants, and needs. Will I be the primariy speaker? Who knows. Subsequently we'll do the church deal, but it will be far less intimate and ultimately it will be an exercise for family and friends. A celebration of sorts of the people who will surround and help rear my children. That's a way you can have 'voice' while satisfying the orthodox.

[UtahDan]

Even if LA knew this, I didn't. Was it a bedside type of thing in the hospital?

https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/pdf/115-6-30-43.pdf

[UtahDan]

WTF? I don't even make the top two?

Like most things, trying too hard is counterproductive.

[Pheidippides]

I think these are very interesting and valid points.

One of the reasons that I hope for mixed-gender presidencies is to force people with different backgrounds and experiences to work together (i.e. corporate-minded men and stay at home moms). I was often frustrated when serving in the all-female primary presidency that it took three hours in a presidency meeting to decide what color to make the bulletin board. I think that men in the church generally don't worry about stuff like this. My viewpoint of "Keep it simple and focus on teaching the kids about Jesus Christ" seemed vetoed in favor of making everything about complex crafts. Maybe this makes my perspective too "corporate" or "male" for the primary presidency?

Men and women in the church can and should learn from each other's different experiences and viewpoints. The current hierarchy and set-up makes that challenging if not impossible in most circumstances.

I agree completely. Both genders bring many different problems to leadership, just as they bring many different benefits. I would prefer mixed gender presidencies as well. I know, for example, that many men have a very difficult time in Primary because they have issues being led by women (some of that is out-and-out sexist, some of that is stylistic leadership differences).

I don't think you should carry the idea over into RS/Priesthood of course, but for most organizations I would like to see it be the default. If I were to ever be called as (heaven forbid!) Bishop under the current church regime, the first thing I would do would be to form an advisory panel of the best and brightest women in the ward to make sure I was hearing what they were saying.

[UtahDan]

If I were to ever be called as (heaven forbid!) Bishop under the current church regime, the first thing I would do would be to form an advisory panel of the best and brightest women in the ward to make sure I was hearing what they were saying.

I'm pretty sure this happens all on its own.

[Mrs. Funk]

I'm pretty sure this happens all on its own.

Pssssh. It's a good sentiment, and the attitude of a bishop actively seeking the involvement of women in the ward should be applauded. It doesn't happen all on its own.

[beefytee]

I agree completely. Both genders bring many different problems to leadership, just as they bring many different benefits. I would prefer mixed gender presidencies as well. I know, for example, that many men have a very difficult time in Primary because they have issues being led by women (some of that is out-and-out sexist, some of that is stylistic leadership differences).

I don't think you should carry the idea over into RS/Priesthood of course, but for most organizations I would like to see it be the default. If I were to ever be called as (heaven forbid!) Bishop under the current church regime, the first thing I would do would be to form an advisory panel of the best and brightest women in the ward to make sure I was hearing what they were saying.

Being the cubmaster, I'm in a sort of "mixed" presidency. The committee chair is a Sister and the den leaders are pretty much split half and half.

I could see it working in true presidencies.

Thinking about this, is Cub scouts the only place where things seems to mix? The library is the only other I can think of.


Edit: Activities committee comes to mind as well.

[I.J. Reilly]

Pssssh. It's a good sentiment, and the attitude of a bishop actively seeking the involvement of women in the ward should be applauded. It doesn't happen all on its own.

What happens when you're not included in the "best and brightest" inner circle?

[UtahDan]

Pssssh. It's a good sentiment, and the attitude of a bishop actively seeking the involvement of women in the ward should be applauded. It doesn't happen all on its own.

I'm only sort of kidding here. I think it is a good thing too, but I have heard from numerous bishops that something like 75% of their time is occupied by a select few women in the ward. Nothing wrong with that, but there are usually a couple who are very needy and/or have lots of suggestions.

[UtahDan]

What happens when you're not included in the "best and brightest" inner circle?

That is no different than the status quo.

[Pheidippides]

I'm pretty sure this happens all on its own.

Only if you replace "best and brightest" with "loudest and nosiest."