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Women teaching patriarchy to women.

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  • Women teaching patriarchy to women.

    http://beginningsnew.blogspot.com/20...ership-in.html

    I think this is a tough lesson to try to teach as is; not that I necessarily disagree with any particular part of it, but it's just poorly written and poorly organized. My starting-out advice would be that the point that's trying to be taught here is barely any different from the previous lesson. The distinction between "supporting priesthood bearers" and "supporting and honoring priesthood in one's family when one has it," in practice, is going to be such a fine gradation that it seems worthwhile to combine lessons 13 and 14 if at all possible, otherwise it might seem completely redundant. But that's assuming you're in a position to make those decisions; if not, and the same teacher has to teach both of these on different weeks, well... let's see what we can do with what we've got.

    First of all, deal with the word "patriarchy." For feminists, it's a bad word. The wikipedia entry on patriarchy is one of the most frequently vandalized entries, and one which the authors find hard to keep neutral in tone. Young women may or may not have an aversion to the word, but also might not know what it means exactly, and so some kind of definition is needed to prevent misunderstanding. Our use of the word is somewhat specialized. Simply: in the gospel plan, families are organized by a patriarchal order, in which fathers are given responsibility for the welfare of their families. An LDS family can be classified "patriarchal" if the couple is sealed in the temple and the husband/father uses the priesthood in righteousness.
    And from the comment section in response:

    I absolutely reject patriarchy, and will never teach any woman that her husband has intrinsic authority over her for any reason, even if that authority is as loving, gentle and persuasive as possible.

    To make the lesson a little easier to swallow, I might just take off the "patriarchal" part and do something about joint leadership and equal partnership in the home.

    In recent years, the church has talked a lot more about "equal partnership" but they still can't let go of this whole notion of "men preside." If one person presides, they are not equal. It is impossible to have equality within hierarchy.

    I've been thinking about this lesson for months, and am still really undecided about what to do.

  • #2
    Jeez first the men were no longer allowed to marry and marry and marry at will; then the wicked slothful curse of Cain were given the priesthood; then women were put on equal footing in the home. What has happened to the kingdom of wealthy white male fee simple supremists? Next thing we know one of them will call a minority to the apostleship.

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    • #3
      It's sad to continue to see how badly misunderstood the doctrine of the priesthood can be in some quarters.

      One the greatest services a man can do for his wife and daughters in the church is teach and exemplify the proper meaning of the word "preside."

      (Hint: it doesn't mean "gets to make all the decisions".)
      Have we been commanded not to call a prophet an insular racist? Link?

      - Cali Coug

      I always wanted to wear a tiara.
      We need to be careful going back to the bible for guidance.

      - Jeff Lebowski

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Tex View Post
        It's sad to continue to see how badly misunderstood the doctrine of the priesthood can be in some quarters.

        One the greatest services a man can do for his wife and daughters in the church is teach and exemplify the proper meaning of the word "preside."

        (Hint: it doesn't mean "gets to make all the decisions".)
        Let's be positive here. Don't tell us what he doesn't get to do.

        You tell us what "preside" means in the church. Obviously it must mean something different than what is in the dictionary.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by byu71 View Post
          Let's be positive here. Don't tell us what he doesn't get to do.

          You tell us what "preside" means in the church. Obviously it must mean something different than what is in the dictionary.
          All I know is how my wife defines the word. I simply abide by her definition and everything works great.
          “There is a great deal of difference in believing something still, and believing it again.”
          ― W.H. Auden


          "God made the angels to show His splendour - as He made animals for innocence and plants for their simplicity. But men and women He made to serve Him wittily, in the tangle of their minds."
          -- Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons


          "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
          --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

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          • #6
            The fact that the Church withholds the Priesthood from women simply reflects our sexist cultural heritage.

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            • #7
              Having a priesthood leadership position is so much fun. What a blast.
              Everything in life is an approximation.

              http://twitter.com/CougarStats

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Indy Coug View Post
                Having a priesthood leadership position is so much fun. What a blast.
                I also love presiding in my home. It's really fun to do and I take advantage of that authority whenever my wife says it's okay.
                I'm like LeBron James.
                -mpfunk

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by smokymountainrain View Post
                  I also love presiding in my home. It's really fun to do and I take advantage of that authority whenever my wife says it's okay.
                  I look at "presiding over the home" as merely stating where the bulk of the accountability resides if things aren't going right, not who has the scepter to the throne.
                  Last edited by Indy Coug; 04-30-2009, 12:03 PM.
                  Everything in life is an approximation.

                  http://twitter.com/CougarStats

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by CardiacCoug View Post
                    The fact that the Church withholds the Priesthood from women simply reflects our sexist cultural heritage.
                    So there is a zero percent chance that this is actually how God wants it.

                    I see.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by JohnnyLingo View Post
                      So there is a zero percent chance that this is actually how God wants it.

                      I see.
                      Maybe he can get another relative to bend a Prophet's ear about this one and eventually effect some change.
                      Everything in life is an approximation.

                      http://twitter.com/CougarStats

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by CardiacCoug View Post
                        The fact that the Church withholds the Priesthood from women simply reflects our sexist cultural heritage.
                        I think it is because women are so good already they do not need to learn from the experience of having the priesthood. I am pretty sure I have heard that one used.

                        I have never heard the one that they don't have it because they were fence sitters. Too many of the women who actually do run the house would kick the crap out of their husbands if that one was ever used.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Indy Coug View Post
                          Maybe he can get another relative to bend a Prophet's ear about this one and eventually effect some change.
                          It will change, eventually.

                          None of us may live to see the change, but I have no doubt that this Priesthood restriction will go away just like the other culturally-based restriction. People thought that other restriction was divinely-inspired and would last forever, too.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by CardiacCoug View Post
                            It will change, eventually.

                            None of us may live to see the change, but I have no doubt that this Priesthood restriction will go away just like the other culturally-based restriction. People thought that other restriction was divinely-inspired and would last forever, too.
                            Will there be an opt-out option for women, like the military? I have no complaints about the benefits without the responsibility, but I'm not going to rehash my opinions in RF's thread.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by CardiacCoug View Post
                              It will change, eventually.

                              None of us may live to see the change, but I have no doubt that this Priesthood restriction will go away just like the other culturally-based restriction. People thought that other restriction was divinely-inspired and would last forever, too.

                              I really doubt this one will change. Women who accept the Prophet are content in the church without it. As long as it isn't used as a tool to supress women, I don't think they care if they have it or not. The women who dominate a marriage will do so with or without the Priesthood and I don't think women are that hung up on trying to run the church.

                              As far as running a ward, I suspect a lot more Bishops wives do it than one might suspect.

                              Biggest shock on my mission was that Sister mission president actually ran the mission.

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