Gay and Mormon: BYU hosted panel for gay BYU students

[tooblue]

I am also embarrassed that I went there, even though it's the best damn school ever, even if it is full of homophobes and religious nutcases. I would be a professor there if I could get an ecclesiastical endorsement and keep it, and also if I didn't need to be at a medical school. I think it would be super entertaining to be able to rock the boat there without risking my job.

I didn't attend BYU. I am not embarrassed by the school. I have no real interest in teaching there. I'd rather teach elsewhere. If my children want to attend BYU, I will happily support them. If they don't, great. I prefer to try to make a difference in my local Ward through thoughtful service.

[creekster]

I think, with respect to this issue, you guys are uncomfortable that you went to this school, that you send your kids there, that you root for its sports teams, that in some way or another you're part of a school that perpetrates this kind of crap. That's what I think.

You should be in SU's foxhole too, because you don't quit even when you are getting kicked in the teeth.

Look, this quoted post illustrates the point. You are focused on the school perpetuating this kind of crap. We are looking at the event and the people and applauding what we see. This isn't rivalry smack. This is about genuine people dealing with a genuinely difficult issue and despite your and SU's efforts to fold this into your tiresome caricature of the church and BYU, most of us here see the good that happened. I am ised to this from SU. But I am personally disappointed that you, who I respect, can't bring yourself to see that without the negative qualifications.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I think, with respect to this issue, you guys are uncomfortable that you went to this school, that you send your kids there, that you root for its sports teams, that in some way or another you're part of a school that perpetrates this kind of crap. That's what I think.

Yes, BYU disappoints and embarrasses me from time to time. Sometimes badly. Same with the church.

But God help me, I still love them both.

[SeattleUte]

You should be in SU's foxhole too, because you don't quit even when you are getting kicked in the teeth.

Look, this quoted post illustrates the point. You are focused on the school perpetuating this kind of crap. We are looking at the event and the people and applauding what we see. This isn't rivalry smack. This is about genuine people dealing with a genuinely difficult issue and despite your and SU's efforts to fold this into your tiresome caricature of the church and BYU, most of us here see the good that happened. I am ised to this from SU. But I am personally disappointed that you, who I respect, can't bring yourself to see that without the negative qualifications.

Amen, my friend, this is about genuine people dealing with a genuinely difficult issues. I'm glad these few people have made you feel better about your faith and your alma mater. Sorry to rain on your parade, but bear in mind the untold number of women and gays still suffering from the LDS Church's misogyny and homophobia, which this has not changed one whit. Solon is absolutely right that the celebration over this modest event is a form of unconscious damning with faint praise by progmos.

[byu71]

Amen, my friend, this is about genuine people dealing with a genuinely difficult issues. I'm glad these few people have made you feel better about your faith and your alma mater. Sorry to rain on your parade, but bear in mind the untold number of women and gays still suffering from the LDS Church's misogyny and homophobia, which this has not changed one whit. Solon is absolutely right that the celebration over this modest event is a form of unconscious damning with faint praise by progmos.

I am following this discussion with interest. I haven't formed an opinion.

It would be helpful to me if you could more clearly define the number or approxiamte number "untold" stands for.

[Indy Coug]

It's becoming increasingly clear this thread says more about SU's and Solon's collective baggage than the real and/or perceived flaws of BYU and/or the LDS Church.

[Viking]

Yes, BYU disappoints and embarrasses me from time to time. Sometimes badly. Same with the church.

But God help me, I still love them both.

This should be the CUF motto. It's precisely how I feel.

[tooblue]

Amen, my friend, this is about genuine people dealing with a genuinely difficult issues. I'm glad these few people have made you feel better about your faith and your alma mater. Sorry to rain on your parade, but bear in mind the untold number of women and gays still suffering from the LDS Church's misogyny and homophobia, which this has not changed one whit. Solon is absolutely right that the celebration over this modest event is a form of unconscious damning with faint praise by progmos.

And what of your self-same misogyny and homophobia? You'd like us to believe it has changed, but the more you prattle on here in this thread, the more you reveal your own insecurities and that your true feelings haven't changed one whit.

[CardiacCoug]

Can you be more specific? I'm not challenging your statement, I'm honestly not familiar enough with the A.P. manuals to know what they say about homosexuality.

Here's a gem straight out of the manual:

Homosexuality

President Spencer W. Kimball said:

“Let it therefore be clearly stated that the seriousness of the sin of homosexuality is equal to or greater than that of fornication or adultery; and that the Lord’s Church will as readily take action to disfellowship or excommunicate the unrepentant practicing homosexual as it will the unrepentant fornicator or adulterer” (The Miracle of Forgiveness [Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1969], pp. 81–82; italics in original).

[Indy Coug]

Here's a gem straight out of the manual:

So they are treated like someone having heterosexual sex outside the bonds of marriage? Wow, that's really out there.

[Viking]

So they are treated like someone having heterosexual sex outside the bonds of marriage? Wow, that's really out there.

"equal to or greater"

[byu71]

Here's a gem straight out of the manual:

That quote by President Kimball leads me to ask the question again. If I go and have sex, won't I be treated the same way by the church as a homo sexual.

I see my choice if I want to have sex is to do so and stay LDS but not actively participate or find a church with an atmoshpere that accepts my God given need to have sex.

[Indy Coug]

"equal to or greater"

The point being it's not less serious.

[UtahDan]

It's becoming increasingly clear this thread says more about SU's and Solon's collective baggage than the real and/or perceived flaws of BYU and/or the LDS Church.

You are neither an exmo nor a progressive Mormon. What do you care?

[Indy Coug]

You are neither an exmo nor a progressive Mormon. What do you care?

I see what you did there...

I'm a BYU alum and I'm a member of the church -- which has gay members in its ranks. Therefore, I care.