Gay and Mormon: BYU hosted panel for gay BYU students

[Northwestcoug]

Reading the live blog, I was struck by the courage and sincerity of the participants. This would never had happened at BYU when I was there. I think the word 'pioneer' absolutely describes these students. I'm glad they feel accepted enough to be able to talk about something the institution has villified for far too long.

It is progress, and I'm grateful for that.

[CardiacCoug]

I didn't get the impression that the wife was taking meds specifically to supress the libido, more that the libido suppression was a side effect of whatever medication she's taking. It seemed like it was just an anecdote to say "I'm gay and I want sex with my wife more than she does."

So she's on anti-depressants so everything is obviously going great with their decision to marry each other and never have sex.

[Pelado]

So she's on anti-depressants so everything is obviously going great with their decision to marry each other and never have sex.

You'd probably have a better idea than I would of what medications she might be taking that suppress her libido. It wouldn't surprise me if she were taking anti-depressants, but that's not how my wife does it.

[wuapinmon]

I took this in Nashville last week.

[Northwestcoug]

Yeah, I hope the married gay guy isn't used as an example for other gay men to emulate. Right now, I'm just glad he and others feel comfortable enough to publicly come out at the Y.

I hope it's only a matter of time when the 'no discussion of church doctrine' restriction is no longer a policy at similar future symposia.

[TexTechCoug]

So she's on anti-depressants so everything is obviously going great with their decision to marry each other and never have sex.

Or maybe she is on birth control or something hormonal to suppress endometriosis, there are a lot of drugs that curb a woman's libido.

[creekster]

So she's on anti-depressants so everything is obviously going great with their decision to marry each other and never have sex.

You know, that's sort of a jerk thing to say about her; it makes quite a few assumptions that are unwarranted. Why focus on that aspect of it?

[mr_thekid]

Just read through the transcript. What amazingly strong people those students are. Wish I could have been there.

I thought one of the most interesting parts was when one of the male panelists talked about how angry he felt that the church was forcing him to be around so many naked men in the MTC showers every morning. It made me think about how many gay missionaries had to go through the same thing, and having no one to turn to. Yikes. I can't imagine how horrible that must have been for them.

[Top Ute]

You know, that's sort of a jerk thing to say about her; it makes quite a few assumptions that are unwarranted. Why focus on that aspect of it?

Tone notwithstanding, when you're "gay" yet married to a member of the opposite sex, you lose a lot of ground in expecting people not to make assumptions.

While I appreciate the honesty shown by all of the participants at this forum, I can't reconcile how marriage without (initial) physical attraction can be condoned. Without it, it's marriage for marriage's sake and can only be truly satisfying for appearance's sake. Certainly not to the individuals themselves.

[mr_thekid]

While I appreciate the honesty shown by all of the participants at this forum, I can't reconcile how marriage without (initial) physical attraction can be condoned. Without it, it's marriage for marriage's sake and can only be truly satisfying for appearance's sake. Certainly not to the individuals themselves.

If it's the choice of the couple and they feel right about it, I see no problem in it. The married guy stressed that his situation is extremely atypical, and he seemed to imply that it's not for everyone. But going through with it as a result of pressure from family or church leaders or whoever is definitely a major concern.

[Top Ute]

If it's the choice of the couple and they feel right about it, I see no problem in it. The married guy stressed that his situation is extremely atypical, and he seemed to imply that it's not for everyone. But going through with it as a result of pressure from family or church leaders or whoever is definitely a major concern.

There are lots of choices couples make that "they feel right about" that we don't approve of. Divorce being one of them. I'm not saying divorce is never justified, but I've seen a few where all the signs for such a decision screamed selfishness on the adults' behalf.

I think a better way to frame this, is the couple harming anyone by doing what they're doing? Other than themselves, probably not. At the same time, I'd be crushed if my daughter ended up in a marriage like this (and if it were my son, I'd be angry over him taking such a route and living in denial). The old adage, "She can do better," certainly would apply for me.

[Jennerstein]

There are lots of choices couples make that "they feel right about" that we don't approve of. Divorce being one of them. I'm not saying divorce is never justified, but I've seen a few where all the signs for such a decision screamed selfishness on the adults' behalf.

I think a better way to frame this, is the couple harming anyone by doing what they're doing? Other than themselves, probably not. At the same time, I'd be crushed if my daughter ended up in a marriage like this (and if it were my son, I'd be angry over him taking such a route and living in denial). The old adage, "She can do better," certainly would apply for me.

I don't venture out into the Foyer often, mostly because I am more conservative LDS than most of the participants in this area of CUF.

I read the blog post on Student Review and immediately realized that I knew one of the panel participants. I have the utmost respect for them and their courage. I don't know if it does any good to to make a judgment that someone is "living in denial" just because he or she decides to live a gay lifestyle that is dissimilar to the majority of the world's expectations on how gays should live.

[Dr. Heinz Doofenshmirtz]

Yep a good first step.

They made an interesting comment that they were not going to address Church doctrine. Obviously a precondition was that they weren't going to say "The Church could or should change...." That's OK with me because I think when you start having open and honest discussion it is obvious where the Church has gone wrong.

There are still some very obvious problems with the content of the Aaronic Priesthood manuals related to homosexuality. But nobody cares about fixing those I guess -- more important things to do first I suppose -- who cares about gay kids committing suicide anyway?

Not sure I agree with holding up as an example a gay guy who got married despite no attraction to his wife and whose wife is on meds to suppress her libido. Pretty sure that is going to end badly. But whatever I guess open discussion is good and that's the reality for a lot of gay people.

Can you be more specific? I'm not challenging your statement, I'm honestly not familiar enough with the A.P. manuals to know what they say about homosexuality.

[Solon]

Sap? Nothing of the sort. It is a really huge deal. I felt a great deal of joy in reading it....joy for the panelists but also for the school. Change is possible. It may take a long time, but these kids are true pioneers at BYU. Very courageous. And kudos to the students and faculty in the audience as well. Sounds like a resounding success of an evening. I hope OhioBlue is able to confirm because a lot can be lost in the transcription. I'm interested in his take.

I agree that it's a big development at the byu, but the fact that we're doing cartwheels to celebrate a panel like this shows just how backwards the institution is/has been.

I also think this is small potatoes. Church leadership could change the culture almost instantly with a 5-minute statement from Monson. And until we see that kind of change from leadership, we have to be happy that the byu is only less homophobic than we thought.

In the meantime, I'm pleased with any progress. So, bravo to these students. I just hope dearly that they haven't ruined their lives in Provo for such a small step.

[mcan]

Student review is live blogging the event:

http://thestudentreview.org/2012/04/...-gay-students/

Thanks for linking to this. It was a very good read.