BKP on the Priesthood Ban

[byu71]

Dang it. You don't even get my insults anymore.

Perhaps I got it and pretended not to.

[Solon]

i have, in fact. i'm a man of the oppressed minority. i even tipped the negro boy that shined my shoes the other day. it's a shame that his biologically inferior cognitive capability so limits his potential.

That's awfully big of you.
I would be willing to let every Negro drive a Cadillac if they could afford it.
(barf)

[Jeff Lebowski]

Perhaps I got it and pretended not to.

[FMCoug]

I've never met a Gypsy so I'm going to go with the "let's not besmirch an entire group" approach. The discussion on whether it is a lifestyle, race, or ethnic group is kind of pointless IMO. By that standard it's okay to say you hate Mormons but not Jews. Or any religion is fair game since it's a lifestyle but not a race.

[Topper]

I've never met a Gypsy so I'm going to go with the "let's not besmirch an entire group" approach. The discussion on whether it is a lifestyle, race, or ethnic group is kind of pointless IMO. By that standard it's okay to say you hate Mormons but not Jews. Or any religion is fair game since it's a lifestyle but not a race.

Try Gadianton Robbers. You would not like them. The fact Solon met one whom he would not visit should shed light upon their communities. Remember the recent commotion in Greece?

[TripletDaddy]

Roma also populate certain areas of South America, specifically parts of Brazil. I worked in an area on the Bolivia/Brazil border and we had to have special permission from the mission office to baptize the Roma. They were called "ciganos" and were regarded by locals as bumpkins. When I returned home I roomed with one person that served in Portugal and another in Spain. Both of them told me they had the exact same rule in their mission. In our mission, there were rumors why we needed special permission and most of them involved confessions of murder. Dont know if that was really the reason but if you baptized a cigano, the MP had to interview them first.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

Roma also populate certain areas of South America, specifically parts of Brazil. I worked in an area on the Bolivia/Brazil border and we had to have special permission from the mission office to baptize the Roma. They were called "ciganos" and were regarded by locals as bumpkins. When I returned home I roomed with one person that served in Portugal and another in Spain. Both of them told me they had the exact same rule in their mission. In our mission, there were rumors why we needed special permission and most of them involved confessions of murder. Dont know if that was really the reason but if you baptized a cigano, the MP had to interview them first.

Topper referred to this previously, but they were known as something like "Zigoyner" in Germany. So the German and Spanish words are similar. I'm not sure what the root of it is.

[Topper]

Topper referred to this previously, but they were known as something like "Zigoyner" in Germany. So the German and Spanish words are similar. I'm not sure what the root of it is.

Fantastic link. Zigeuner and ciganos. That link makes me want to investigate the etymology of the word.

The etymology is linked to Greek and is a bit complex, but this link substantiates my original belief that it denotes a lifestyle and group of robbers and only secondly denotes an ethnic group.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zigeuner

It is also possible the word comes from umherziehender Gauner, which means a nomadic thief or swindler.

Here is an alternative explanation of its definition:

Die Bezeichnung "Zigeuner" ist vermutlich aus dem altgriechischen Wort "atsínganoi" entstanden. Übersetzt heißt dies "Unberührbare". Dadurch wird klar, weshalb die Bezeichnung von vielen als herabsetzend angesehen wird. Heute verwendet man in Deutschland meist den Begriff "Sinti und Roma"

[clackamascoug]

Having been to Istanbul on dozens of occasions back in the 60's, I was introduced to the atrocities of the Gypsies. They were known to kidnap children, and break their limbs and heal them in grotesque poses and plant them on corners for begging. There was one young lad (about my age) by the Galata Bridge I would see often as we would enter or exit the ferry, and with his legs broken and bent backwards, he would say, as we passed by, "I'm a hungry boy." Gypsies did that.

[wuapinmon]

Fantastic link. Zigeuner and ciganos. That link makes me want to investigate the etymology of the word.

The etymology is linked to Greek and is a bit complex, but this link substantiates my original belief that it denotes a lifestyle and group of robbers and only secondly denotes an ethnic group.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zigeuner

It is also possible the word comes from umherziehender Gauner, which means a nomadic thief or swindler.

Here is an alternative explanation of its definition:

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cig%C3%A1ny

τσιγγάνος

[old_gregg]

the atrocities of the Gypsies.

hah. usually when atrocity and gypsies are mentioned in the same sentence, the gypsies are not the culpable party.

[Applejack]

Roma also populate certain areas of South America, specifically parts of Brazil. I worked in an area on the Bolivia/Brazil border and we had to have special permission from the mission office to baptize the Roma. They were called "ciganos" and were regarded by locals as bumpkins. When I returned home I roomed with one person that served in Portugal and another in Spain. Both of them told me they had the exact same rule in their mission. In our mission, there were rumors why we needed special permission and most of them involved confessions of murder. Dont know if that was really the reason but if you baptized a cigano, the MP had to interview them first.

This anecdote should satisfy Old_Gregg's concerns about improperly demonizing an entire ethnic group. If the church feels that a particular group should not receive the same treatment as the dominant ethnic group, there is certainly a good reason for that distinction.

[pellegrino]

This anecdote will likely blow some minds, but I've actually met several Gypsies who are warm, decent people. Some remain friends of mine to this day from my days spent kicking stray dogs in Bulgaria. We share the same biology, regardless of ideology. Believe me when I say to you, I hope the Gypsies love their children too.

Thanks Gordon Sumner! I hope the gypsies love their children too.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I agree with Uncle Ted that one of the most interesting impacts of this new statement is that it contradicts LDS scripture. A discussion of that here:

My focus right now is on how the statement should not only be seen as a rejection of previous modern statements by Church leaders on the topic of race, but also as a rejection of face-value acceptance of theological affirmations presented by ancient scriptural figures as well.


The statement has not only shifted the paradigm on the words of our modern leaders, but substantially – especially in the case of the Book of Mormon – in how Mormons approach, learn from, and seek to be inspired by the prophets of old. It not only invites us to read the scriptures in a new way, it demands it.


- See more at: http://www.withoutend.org/adjusting-....exPhLm7i.dpuf

[byu71]

I agree with Uncle Ted that one of the most interesting impacts of this new statement is that it contradicts LDS scripture. A discussion of that here:

It could be quite possible that the comments about "dark and loathesome" were opinions and not exactly what God had revealed. For instance Mormon had been battling the lamanites over the years. Because of this he could have embellished a bit.