exmo.com comes to WashPo

[RobinFinderson]

Bring it on, Finderson.

Wait 'til I infiltrate the executive committee. Then you'll see! Bwajajajjajaajaja!

(Crap, did I just say that out loud?)

[Viking]

I wonder how much of this is spin though. You only seem to hear it from the exmo types.

In my own family, our experience was that the "apostate" basically left the family himself. He issued an ultimatum that basically said the rest of us had to leave if we were to have any association with him. He has since moved with no forwarding address provided to his parents or siblings. And yet he is very active in the exmo world now, a true fanatic, telling people the story of how his family "shunned" him. Which is complete bullshit.

That is admittedly just one anecdote. So I pose the question to CUF at large. How many of you know someone who has been shunned by their family for apostasy? In your own family or otherwise, it just has to be firsthand knowledge.

How many of our beloved board apostates here have been "shunned"?

I'm sure it happens, but most of what comes from that crowd seems to be 90% hyperbolic bullshit.

I have 25+ family members who refuse to speak with me. One cousin, who was practically a brother, finally emailed me two weeks ago...the first time he's contacted me in 7 years. I'm not sure how much I blame them; they are so devout that I do consider them to be in a cult of sorts. I'm decidedly not saying Mormonism is a cult; simply the way these folks choose to practice and believe, it has become a cult to them. They simply don't know how to deal with someone who leaves their ranks.

My mother preaches to me in every email she writes. For Christmas, I get books from her about the historicity of all sorts of things mormon. I got this gem two years ago: http://www.bookofmormontrial.com/

I'm certain I'm the subject of monthly fasting and lots of paper in a box in the temple. She should eat something and save a tree.

That said, I thought the Sheffield piece was pretty poor. If she's really a talented writer, you wouldn't know if from that article alone. I've already referenced the Tal Bachman nonsense. Here's my favorite, however:

Most of us are quiet dissidents who wish to lead conscientious lives.

Really, Ms. Sheffield? I don't know many "quiet" dissidents who write articles for the Washington Post.

[Shaka]

I have 25+ family members who refuse to speak with me. One cousin, who was practically a brother, finally emailed me two weeks ago...the first time he's contacted me in 7 years. I'm not sure how much I blame them; they are so devout that I do consider them to be in a cult of sorts. I'm decidedly not saying Mormonism is a cult; simply the way these folks choose to practice and believe, it has become a cult to them. They simply don't know how to deal with someone who leaves their ranks.

My mother preaches to me in every email she writes. For Christmas, I get books from her about the historicity of all sorts of things mormon. I got this gem two years ago: http://www.bookofmormontrial.com/

I'm certain I'm the subject of monthly fasting and lots of paper in a box in the temple. She should eat something and save a tree.

That said, I thought the Sheffield piece was pretty poor. If she's really a talented writer, you wouldn't know if from that article alone. I've already referenced the Tal Bachman nonsense. Here's my favorite, however:



Really, Ms. Sheffield? I don't know many "quiet" dissidents who write articles for the Washington Post.

Interestingly Tal's personal life has gone to hell after he left the church. If I understand correctly he got his family out only to have his wife and children return to the fold. The aftermath of all that was divorce. Tal is a bit of an arrogant dude but I've always liked him. The thing I liked least about him was his rantings about being in constant danger while serving his mission. I think he missed the whole point of serving.

[ERCougar]

Interestingly Tal's personal life has gone to hell after he left the church. If I understand correctly he got his family out only to have his wife and children return to the fold. The aftermath of all that was divorce. Tal is a bit of an arrogant dude but I've always liked him. The thing I liked least about him was his rantings about being in constant danger while serving his mission. I think he missed the whole point of serving.

His sister served in my mission. She was always pretty straight-arrow from what I saw.

[UtahDan]

Mormons' Double Legacy, by Laurie A. Maffly-Kipp

Laurie does the best job of describing the mistrust many Americans feel toward Mormons:



It is like I've said before, Mormons are the RobinFinderson of the American religious world -- for a significant minority of Americans, it will never matter what you do, good or otherwise, it will all form a negative impression in a prejudiced mind.

I don't think many noMos are aware of it, but the White Horse prophecy says something akin to this. I'm not talking about the detailed later version that is of questionable provenance (though that version has been influential and is very entertaining), I'm talking about the quotes from Brigham Young forward that the day is coming when the government of the United States and constitution will be close to failure and that the elders of the church will step forward to save it. Brigham is more explicit about this meaning that the Elders of the church will actually take over the government. That hasn't really been repeated, but the idea that it will be the Elders of the church (sorry ladies) that will save the government definitely has.

Maybe Mitt is the white horse. Just sayin'.

[Sleeping in EQ]

I don't think many noMos are aware of it, but the White Horse prophecy says something akin to this. I'm not talking about the detailed later version that is of questionable provenance (though that version has been influential and is very entertaining), I'm talking about the quotes from Brigham Young forward that the day is coming when the government of the United States and constitution will be close to failure and that the elders of the church will step forward to save it. Brigham is more explicit about this meaning that the Elders of the church will actually take over the government. That hasn't really been repeated, but the idea that it will be the Elders of the church (sorry ladies) that will save the government definitely has.

Maybe Mitt is the white horse. Just sayin'.

If memory serves, Ezra Taft Benson alluded to the White Horse Prophecy in one of his political GC sermons in the 1960s.

[UtahDan]

If memory serves, Ezra Taft Benson alluded to the White Horse Prophecy in one of his political GC sermons in the 1960s.

He did. It was also in MoDoc and in a 1976 Ensign. The church in 2010 put out a press release saying that the church does not embrace the white horse prophecy as doctrine, but I think they are talking about the long version that has lots of weird stuff in it. Not the idea that the constitution will hang by a thread and the elders will save it. I think that is alive and well.

[SloanHater]

He did. It was also in MoDoc and in a 1976 Ensign. The church in 2010 put out a press release saying that the church does not embrace the white horse prophecy as doctrine, but I think they are talking about the long version that has lots of weird stuff in it. Not the idea that the constitution will hang by a thread and the elders will save it. I think that is alive and well.

So you believe the Church says one thing and does the opposite? Speaks volumes.

[UtahDan]

So you believe the Church says one thing and does the opposite? Speaks volumes.

What are you talking about? I didn't say that.

[beefytee]

What are you talking about? I didn't say that.

I'm with SloanHater here. I'm confused why you think the official church position still considers some of the white horse prophecy as valid. Why do you think that?

[UtahDan]

I'm with SloanHater here. I'm confused why you think the official church position still considers some of the white horse prophecy as valid. Why do you think that?

Fair enough. Because the "white horse prophecy" refers to more than one thing. it refers generally to the idea that the elders of the church will one day save the constitution when it hangs by a thread. But it also refers to a 1902 recording of what Edwin Rushton claims was a 1843 conversation with Joseph Smith that is very specific and contains a lot of strange stuff. That document has been repudiated by the church over and over going back to 1918. The general idea, however, has been repeated quite a bit. For example:

http://www.lds.org/ensign/1976/06/i-...on+hang+thread

So when the church in its press release talks about the prophecy not being historically substantiated, it makes sense to me it is talking about the Rushton version. Not the general idea that so many prophets and apostles have talked about. Does that makes sense?

[Indy Coug]

Frankly, even the subset of the White Horse Prophecy that refers to the 'Elders of the Church' and the government is so broad and vague that we'd have no way of knowing when and if it was fulfilled, even if it was a valid prophecy to begin with.

[UtahDan]

Frankly, even the subset of the White Horse Prophecy that refers to the 'Elders of the Church' and the government is so broad and vague that we'd have no way of knowing when and if it was fulfilled, even if it was a valid prophecy to begin with.

That is pretty much all end times prophecies right? That is why every generation thinks they apply to them.

[Indy Coug]

That is pretty much all end times prophecies right? That is why every generation thinks they apply to them.

The Christ and Mount of Olives thing will be pretty definitive though.

[creekster]

That is pretty much all end times prophecies right? That is why every generation thinks they apply to them.

Every generation thinks it’s the last
Thinks it the end of the world